Heaven and Hell

[PondPikey]

Really liking what Magick is saying.

 

[Bulldog14]

Most of the times i've been there I was just 'observing'. I've communicated with entities both human, elementals, angelic and demonic beings.

Most humans you speak to in the inferior worlds don't even know where they are or that they are dead. The ones that are aware are black magicians/sorcerers and it's best not to interact to much with those types. To give a vague favlour of what hell is like it's very similar to the film silent hill where you have all the people in perpeptual darkness living in ruined cities and they aren't aware that they have died.

It's very complex as you dealing with different spheres over lapping each other. Initialy hell can seem quite alluring there's drugs, bars, sex and all other forms of vice but it sucks you in then imprisions you and things very quickly become 'hellish' and not nice. Kind of hard to explain until you see it for yourself. The story in Pinochia where the children goto a playground and indulge in lots of pleasures but then turn into donkeys is a good allergory.

The superior worlds (heaven) is a totaly different matter. It is truly amazing, happiness and freedom beyond your wildist dreams. Beuatiful architecture nothing ages or deacys. Even the grass grows in geometricaly beatiful patterns. There is no fear, anger, war, poverty, class or divsion.

The problem is getting into the superior worlds is very hard because you have to purged of all sin and desire. One of the reasons heaven remains the way it is because 'sinful' people aren't let in there. If you seriously working spiritualy though you will be allowed visits there to motivate you to keep working and eliminating all your vices and lusts.

Interesting. Given your unique awareness of the conditions that need to met to get into the superior world, can I assume you are working toward them? Very few of us get the chance to know what will happen. Don't waste it.

With regards to the inferior world, can you burst the bubble of the unknowing souls by revealing to them where they are? Did you partake in any of the vices btw? I assume you could if you wanted as anyone going so far as to astral project themselves should have sufficient power to shield themselves accordingly. Given the excesses here on the mortal plane, I would be curious what a group of everlasting wicked entities could dream up given an eternity.

 

[Usher]

Really liking what Magick is saying.

seriously ??

 

[magick]

Interesting. Given your unique awareness of the conditions that need to met to get into the superior world, can I assume you are working toward them?

Yes

With regards to the inferior world, can you burst the bubble of the unknowing souls by revealing to them where they are?

Did once. Was on the astral plane and a couple moved into a house and I asked them where they are moving from and they couldn't remember. We spoke for a bit and basicaly I got them to think backwards and the last thing they could remember was having a car crash and it dawned on them that they were no longer in the physical plane and there physical bodies died in the crash.

Did you partake in any of the vices btw? I assume you could if you wanted as anyone going so far as to astral project themselves should have sufficient power to shield themselves accordingly.

Yes, though nothing serious just hung around the nightclubs. The nightclubs there are kind of like the nightclubs you only see on music videos with loads of beuatiful girls.

Given the excesses here on the mortal plane, I would be curious what a group of everlasting wicked entities could dream up given an eternity.

LOL. Difficult question as you have different planes in hell. The worst ones i've seen aren't what you might imagine. They just spaces of eternal blackness and souls are abandoned there with no hope of redemption. It's truly horrifying to see even though it doesn't sound it. Best way to describe it is imagine being dropped down a drain into a sewer then seeing the drain lid being put back on there and that's the last time you will ever see light. You'r then left to decompose and decay until your consiousness is broken into its root essence. Once this is complete, and it takes a very, very long time, you then begin the process of evolution up through the mineral, plant, animal and eventualy human kingdoms.

And that is the only way out. Like I said there is no redemption. No one there to provide you with comfort through this process and it takes a very long time and is extermely painful, unrelenting and unmerciful. To reach this level you have to have done extermely bad things or shown no hope of evolving your consciousness by any other means.

 

[elmarko]

Woohoo....here we go again.....


For people who profess no interest in or a dislike of religion or spirituality they certainly like talking about it all the time.....I wonder why that is?

Are you suggesting that if people don't like something - they should not discussed it?.

I'm not sure how society is meant to progress with that attitude.

 

[Jay794]

Are you suggesting that if people don't like something - they should not discussed it?.

I'm not sure how society is meant to progress with that attitude.

Exactly! Just because you have no interest in something doesn't mean you're not allowed to having an opinion on it

 

[elmarko]

So why do churches still exist?

The problem is, like the afterlife we cannot prove or disprove it.

If we could prove it then wouldn't everyone just be raping and stealing because they wouldn't be afraid of going to Hell?

Not sure if serious.....

I don't rape & steal because I have a basic biological/environmentally learned empathy to the suffering others, if a god existed or not does not change that either way.

The better question is, would you rape & steal if you personally knew that god didn't exist?.

I think it says more about the individual.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Have either of you ever read Haruki Murakami's book Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World? Deals with a similar concept and explains it much better than I ever could.

/Salsa

Apologies for bumping the thread but I thought I might as well put down my thoughts about the book anyway. It's a rather interesting little read, Mr Murakami has a fascinating imagination with some extremely curious and well expressed ideas. I don't want to spoil it for anyone but it's well worth the effort to read, it's a bit weird but none the worse for that.

 

[Castiel]

Are you suggesting that if people don't like something - they should not discussed it?.

I'm not sure how society is meant to progress with that attitude.

Pfft.......I'm questioning their motivation, not their right.

 

[Pighardia]

Apologies for bumping the thread but I thought I might as well put down my thoughts about the book anyway. It's a rather interesting little read, Mr Murakami has a fascinating imagination with some extremely curious and well expressed ideas. I don't want to spoil it for anyone but it's well worth the effort to read, it's a bit weird but none the worse for that.

One of my favourites ......But not as good as The Wind-up Bird Chronicle!

 

[Tefal]

Woohoo....here we go again.....


For people who profess no interest in or a dislike of religion or spirituality they certainly like talking about it all the time.....I wonder why that is?

because regardless of your beliefs it is one of the most influential subjects on the planet.

 

[Castiel]

because regardless of your beliefs it is one of the most influential subjects on the planet.

Again.....questioning the motivation, not the right to discuss it.

I have obviously overestimated some peoples level of comprehension.

 

[Tefal]

Again.....questioning the motivation, not the right to discuss it.

I obviously overestimate peoples comprehension.

Yeah you should probbaly check your own comprehension there cas..

I didn't say anything about their right, I just gave you a reason for motivation.


They may have no interest in religion however they know that others interest/belief will affect them so they still wish to talk about it.


But go on tell me how you interpreted what i said as you questioning their right to discuss it. I'd be interested to see how the hell you came up with that.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

What some people believe in this thread is just bat**** insane and scary. It really troubles me that they're able to have children, and I fear for them.

 

[Izi]

There is no heaven and no hell. Both are manufactured by humans to try and explain our existence.

There have been many religions which have risen and fallen in history, the same will happen with modern day religions.

 

[Castiel]

Yeah you should probbaly check your own comprehension there cas..

I didn't say anything about their right, I just gave you a reason for motivation.


They may have no interest in religion however they know that others interest/belief will affect them so they still wish to talk about it.


But go on tell me how you interpreted what i said as you questioning their right to discuss it. I'd be interested to see how the hell you came up with that.

If it is one of the most influential subjects on the planet and people who have no interest in it discuss it because they believe it effects them somehow, then they obviously have an interest in it, do they not?

Being interested in something doesn't mean they believe or disbelieve in something.

I have no doubt that many people of all kinds pf philosophical postions discuss religion because it holds some form of interest for them, either from a personal perspective, political one or even a philosophical one......however if you hold no interest in it, then what is the motivation?

What we see consistantly in these types of threads is an excuse to bully, unfairly criticise or act superior against whichever group is under discussion. That is their only motivation, they hold no objective interest or concern other than that.

Also for those whom profess a dislike, while I understand their motivation for participationg in such a thread, I do not understand why they would actually begin one, at least one as open ended and philosophical as the OP (especially when they post and run).....

I wrongly assumed that was obvious in the (not entirely serious) post I made almost two months ago.....therein lies my overestimation of peoples comprehension.

 

[robmol]

If you don't, why do you believe the concepts were created?

Scaremongering.

 

[Edrof]

I want to hear more from Magick!

 

[DAnDan]

If it is one of the most influential subjects on the planet and people who have no interest in it discuss it because they believe it effects them somehow, then they obviously have an interest in it, do they not?

Being interested in something doesn't mean they believe or disbelieve in something.

I have no doubt that many people of all kinds pf philosophical postions discuss religion because it holds some form of interest for them, either from a personal perspective, political one or even a philosophical one......however if you hold no interest in it, then what is the motivation?

What we see consistantly in these types of threads is an excuse to bully, unfairly criticise or act superior against whichever group is under discussion. That is their only motivation, they hold no objective interest or concern other than that.

I wrongly assumed that was obvious in the (not entirely serious) post I made almost two months ago.....therein lies my overestimation of peoples comprehension.

It depends on your interpretation and definition of interest in the subject.

I'd say I have no interest in religion, as in I hate the idea of it, but I still end up discussing it fairly often, not because of interest in religion, but purely as (to phrase it as you have) I have interest n how it effects me and the world around me.

So no, it's not a failure in anybody's comprehension, you just define it differently to those who you're disagreeing with.

 

[Castiel]

It depends on your interpretation and definition of interest in the subject.

I'd say I have no interest in religion, as in I hate the idea of it, but I still end up discussing it fairly often, not because of interest in religion, but purely as (to phrase it as you have) I have interest n how it effects me and the world around me.

So no, it's not a failure in anybody's comprehension, you just define it differently to those who you're disagreeing with.

So you do have an interest in it.

You may not have a paticular interest in the detail of religion directly, however you do have an interest indirectly.

I am the same with politics, politics bores me, but I hold an interest because it effects me indirectly and I discuss it. Whereas I hold no interest in a whole range of other subjects and thus rarely if ever discuss them, I certainly do not make threads about them.