Heavy fines for those that refuse vaccination in Germany

[dowie]

Just being rational with the numbers here before anyone starts crying that numbers from Wikipedia are a conspiracy theory or start throwing around anti-vax rage or whatever.

just being rational - that is amusing...

the other poster was clearly highlighting that the risk of disease is greater than the risks from vaccinations not that the risk of disease and dying from it is greater than 1% (he commented about the risk of vaccinations being small - in his words less than 1%... in fact much smaller than that) he didn't claim the risks of the disease are higher than 1% but that the - you've then focused on that 1% comment and decided to put in some spurious information re: the risks for polio ... well the risks of a severe reaction from a polio vaccine are of the order of 1 in a million.

The other poster is being rational here, you're just posting yet more nonsense into the thread

 

[asim18]

just being rational - that is amusing...

the other poster was clearly highlighting that the risk of disease is greater than the risks from vaccinations (and commented about the risk of vaccinations being small - in his words less than 1%... in fact much smaller than that) - you've then focused on that 1% comment and decided to put in some spurious information re: the risks for polio ... well the risks of a severe reaction from a polio vaccine are of the order of 1 in a million.

The other poster is being rational here, you're just posting yet more nonsense into the thread

Haha all I've done is posted are some specific figures and you've automatically started crying and calling them nonsense.

Ok dowie you win, the fact that less than 0.15% of people die from polio is nonsense. You are so right. This figure must be ignored and is complete nonsense.

 

[dowie]

Haha all I've done is posted are some specific figures and you've automatically started crying and calling them nonsense.

Ok dowie you win, the fact that less than 0.15% of people die from polio is nonsense. You are so right. This figure must be ignored and is complete nonsense.

you don't even seem to understand why your posts are spurious even after it is highlighted to you

the fact that the other poster highlighted is correct - the risks of vaccination are much lower than the risks of disease

 

[asim18]

you don't even seem to understand why your posts are spurious even after it is highlighted to you

the fact that the other poster highlighted is correct - the risks of vaccination are much lower than the risks of disease

Yes dowie. You are absolutely correct. 1% is less than 0.15%.

 

[adolf hamster]

Ok dowie you win, the fact that less than 0.15% of people die from polio is nonsense. You are so right. This figure must be ignored and is complete nonsense.

probably thanks to all those vaccines so few people die from polio these days

 

[dowie]

Ok dowie. You are absolutely correct. 1% is less than 0.15%.

There is no argument.

risk of severe reaction to a polio vaccine is of the order of 1 in a million, it is indeed less than 1% and less than this 0.15% death figure you're quoting...

the other poster was correct in his statement that the risk of the vaccine is lower than the risk of the disease and your post is utterly spurious

as usual you've come into a thread and posted a whole load of complete nonsense which funnily enough is in support of the conspiraloon position (yet you often claim to be 'rational')

 

[asim18]

probably thanks to all those vaccines so few people die from polio these days

0.15% is a relative number not absolute. It's relative to those who are infected. The relative percentage of deaths stays the same regardless of the amount of people infected.

 

[asim18]

risk of severe reaction to a polio vaccine is of the order of 1 in a million, it is indeed less than 1% and less than this 0.15% death figure you're quoting...

the other poster was correct in his statement that the risk of the vaccine is lower than the risk of the disease and your post is utterly spurious

as usual you've come into a thread and posted a whole load of complete nonsense which funnily enough is in support of the conspiraloon position (yet you often claim to be 'rational')

You're the one twisting the numbers here, the OP said 1 in 100. You're saying 1 in a million.

Doesn't mean that 0.15% death rate for polio is just nonsense. It's a real figure referenced there on the first paragraph on wikipedia.



Well OK just to keep you happy since absolutely everything is a conspiracy to you: Yes that the fact that 0.15% die from polio is a complete and utter conspiracy theory and the numbers are completely fake/conspiracy and were planted on wikipedia by lizard men. Yes dowie you win.

 

[dowie]

You're the one twisting the numbers here, the OP said 1 in 100. You're saying 1 in a million. Ok whatever

Doesn't mean that 0.15% death rate for polio is just nonsense. It's real. It's not a conspiracy.

Well ok just to please you, yes I will say again that the fact that 0.15% die from polio is a complete and utter conspiracy theory. Yes dowie you win.

no you're twisting things as pointed out - the other posted said that the risk from vaccines is way less than 1%, it is indeed: in the case of polio 1 in a million is 'way less than 1%'

he also stated that it was lower than the risk from the disease - he again is correct there - the risk from vaccinations is lower than the risk of the disease being protected against - there wouldn't be much point in them otherwise!

you're then posting rather spurious facts that don't contradict any of this - you've cherry picked an example of the risk of death from polio and used it to argue against something the other poster didn't claim

you're not being 'logical' or helpful, you're just making a bunch of rather silly posts as usual

 

[Glaucus]

oh asim, still being disingenuous, why are you focusing on death. again for the millionth time whats the risk of disability and other sever complications.
and as pointed out it is 1% risk either that was a random small number he picked, yet you are taing it as gospel. just liek you take the CT sites as gospel despite the overwhelming evidence.

 

[dowie]

lets look at measles

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/measles

Measles is a highly infectious viral disease which can lead to serious complications. In high income regions of the world such as Western Europe, it causes death in at least 1 in 5000 cases, but as many as 1 in 100 will die in the poorest regions of the world.

Worldwide, measles is still a major cause of death, especially among children in resource-poor countries. In 2015, 134,200 people died of measles – an average of 367 every day. However, over the last twenty years vaccination has dramatically reduced the number of deaths from measles. Since 1990 (when measles killed 872,000 people), over one in 5 of all child deaths averted have been due to measles vaccination.

is anyone really stupid enough to try and argue that the risk from the MMR vaccine is greater than the risks from the disease?

 

[Nasher]

Yep, all it takes is one kid carrying measles. You can still spread it if your vaccinated. Then all the kids with moronic parents (and probably their parents too) and up in hospital with a serious case of it.

 

[Dolph]

Yep, all it takes is one kid carrying measles. You can still spread it if your vaccinated. Then all the kids with moronic parents (and probably their parents too) and up in hospital with a serious case of it.

Or those who couldn't have the vaccine for genuine medical reasons. Much smaller numbers, but they are the real victims of the idiots.

 

[pooley]

I was hesitant to open this thread due to the views of hippies and conspiracy theorists, I stupidly did it anyway.

Urgh...

Edit - just to add, I'm not saying those who choose not to vaccinate are hippies, but there are those that choose not too for ridiculous reasons

i your opinion of course

 

[Steedie]

i your opinion of course

Nah, they are just ridiculous reasons

 

[Sankari]

At the heart of this issue the question is whether each of us believe the responsibility for our children, the care of our children and the decisions made for them are better done by their immediate family, or by the state.

No. At the heart of this issue, the question is whether each of us will accept the benefits of proven medical science, or ignore it and put our children at risk.

People are still free to make their own decisions about the healthcare of their children. They simply have to accept that there may be unpleasant consequences.

 

[Sankari]

Side effects of vaccines can be real bad

But the possibility of suffering a 'real bad' side effect from a vaccine is so small as to be statistically negligible.

they are directly injected into your bloodstream

No they are not. They are injected into your muscle.

bypassing your natural defenses where your body can't fight it off.

This is complete nonsense. Even if vaccines were injected directly into your bloodstream, they would not bypass your natural defences because the antibodies that protect you from diseases are produced in your blood. They are called white blood cells.

You don't even know enough about this subject to discuss it properly. That's why you're afraid of vaccines: you simply don't understand them, and you've shown no interest in educating yourself on the topic.

The CDC states that "As with any medicine, there is a very remote chance of a vaccine causing a serious injury or death."

Correct. A very remote chance.

Our own government has a vaccine damage program for anyone effected. Why would they do this if vaccines are completely safe?

They do this because vaccines are not completely safe. But they are safe enough that the risks are utterly negligible.

The companies who make vaccines can put whatever they want in them and have no accountability as they are immune to prosecution.

More nonsense. If the companies that made vaccines simply put any old thing into them, the vaccines would not work, and the companies would fail. The companies are accountable to their shareholders, to regulatory bodies, and to the law. Vaccine injury compensation schemes exist to ensure that genuine cases of vaccine injury can be addressed swiftly and efficiently, without the onerous legal costs that would otherwise be incurred by plaintiffs. It is actually easier to receive compensation via this method than it would be by directly suing the manufacturers.

Which means any cases of injury or death as a result of vaccines, goes completely ignored/unreported.

This is completely false. Cases of injury and death as a result of vaccines are not ignored, and they are fully reported. You proved this yourself by reference to the vaccine damage compensation scheme, which would not exist unless reporting took place!

Are you going to address any of the evidence I've posted so far, or will you simply ignore it like pooley did?

 

[Woden]

My mother inlaw is a nurse for the NHS (30 years) and she's always on about bad measles cases that come into the theater, she also admits that half of these cases are on vaccinated children, so it's clear that they do not provide total immunity.
I also know of a ton of other cases on vaccinated people, my mate works in the NHS caring for those who have been damaged by the medical system (yes they actually have a department for it), and most of her cases are from vaccines or chemo.
Side effects of vaccines can be real bad, they are directly injected into your bloodstream, bypassing your natural defenses where your body can't fight it off.
The CDC states that "As with any medicine, there is a very remote chance of a vaccine causing a serious injury or death." Take a look at some of the possible side effects on that site.
Our own government has a vaccine damage program for anyone effected.
Why would they do this if vaccines are completely safe?
The companies who make vaccines can put whatever they want in them and have no accountability as they are immune to prosecution. Which means any cases of injury or death as a result of vaccines, goes completely ignored/unreported.
Do you really want to take this risk with your children?

I am not arguing that they have no benefit, but they are definitely not 100% safe, and this is the reason my 2 youngest are vaccine free.
Medicine that doesn't provide total immunity, that can cause death and serious injury, and nothing you can do about it if it does happen...erm...no thanks!
Governments, Judges, or equal peers should never be given the ability to force this onto people. If you think otherwise, then you are not fit to be a parent.

I don't even know where to start

Ok first thing I need to say. Where do you get the idea you can't fight off things in your bloodstream? This is where most your white blood cells are, the things that fight infection. It's very literally how vaccination works, your body learns how to fight it. The scary but harmless ingredients will get to the liver and kidneys, where the body deals with them.

The companies cannot stick whatever they like in vaccines they are highly regulated and don't work if you put the wrong things in. Even if they did, what would be the point?

No one is claiming they are 100% safe, but they are much safer than the infection. And your choice to not vaccinate your children endanger not only them, but few children that medically can't be vaccinated.

 

[pooley]

i choose NOT to have a cocktail of foreign bodies injected into me and any of your so called experts, reviews, tests claims or whatever they do to justify in doing to so means nothing to me. and i should not be punished for it.

 

[Werewolf]

i choose NOT to have a cocktail of foreign bodies injected into me and any of your so called experts, reviews, tests claims or whatever they do to justify in doing to so means nothing to me. and i should not be punished for it.

Fine.

In that case don't go to the GP next time you have an infection, after all what does the medical profession know about diseases that you don't.
you are far more likely to have a reaction to some of the antibiotics than you are to a vaccine, and what's the worst that can happen if you get a bad infection, well apart from death.

Vaccines are safer than many other medications and if you're worried about them then you really don't want to take painkillers, antibiotics, let alone ever have a sedative and run if someone ever tells you to have a general anaesthetic (although you have have a problem with that if the reason they're suggesting it is because you need a major operation on your legs/hips).

We would just like you to admit that you're also risking others with your decision and take appropriate steps, I hear the Shetland Isles are nice this time of year...(the argument about "only risking myself" when it comes to not having a vaccine is akin to arguing that not changing your car tyres or brakes when they wear down is only risking the occupants of the car).