Home Secretary (finally) allows CBD oil for Billy Caldwell.

There are countless videos on the net that show the massive harm caused by vaccinations, and so vaccinations should be outlawed.

There are countless videos on the net that show free energy machines, and so free energy machines should be used instead of every other form of generating power.

There are countless videos on the net that show time travel, and so time travel should be legalised.

There are countless videos on the net that show that the government of the USA carried out the 9/11 attacks and all the mass shooting killings in the USA, and so the government of the USA should be executed for treason and thousands of counts of murder.

There are countless videos on the net that show that <insert product here> cures cancer and that pharmaceutical companies know that and suppress it, so all cancer treatments should be outlawed and everyone in pharmaceutical companies should be executed for millions of counts of murder.

Give me half an hour and I'm sure I could come up with other "compelling" arguments using your "reasoning".

Most of your points are conspiracy theories - Unless you think these people who are seizing on video and then receiving massive benefits from this oil are actors, I'm not really sure where you're going with your post.

EDIT: Just read some of your other posts where you stated that alcohol and opioids have helped with your pain relief but they're massive causes of deaths in America. Agreed.

How many people have died of THC or CBD overdoses?
 
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You're being a bit selective there.

I was replying to a specific argument:

how high is the thc content in the oil he takes? I saw somewhere someone claimed it was a high thc content.

either way if it helps with his condition I don't see the problem. may as well just legalize the whole lot.

sure less of a problem than alchohol which doesn't have any benefits at all?

So I started my reply to that post by replying to that post. Being "a bit selective" is important, if not essential, when replying to a post.

The 2 drugs you have mentioned have caused more deaths in society than cannabis as ever done

Which is why they're particularly good examples of problems that can exist in drugs that can help with some conditions, even when that help is proven (which isn't the case with cannabinoids and every medical problem under the sun). I chose them because they're two drugs that I have used myself and which help with my medical condition, but they would have been good examples to use anyway because they've caused a lot of problems.

Look at my post and links showing the amount of deaths from alcohol. Then look at tables 6a and 6b of the ONS report on drugs deaths. You can see Opiod based medical deaths are high (which you even acknowledge in the US it is a major problem, yet they are legal). Meanwhile cannabis as been smoked recreationally in the US for many years, mainly due to a lack of enforcement because the country is so big. I would even say it is part of American culture. Take a look at the Cheech and Chong series of films, glorying cannabis. There as been no mention of a mental health crisis due to cannabis use.

True, but irrelevant to the point of whether or not the existence of any beneficial effects on any medical condition automatically makes a drug completely problem-free and one that should be legalised.

Also, mental health is a big issue in the USA (and elsewhere) and cannabis use is a problem for mental health. It is a contributing factor and possibly a sole cause in some cases. The fact that it's not as obviously clear-cut as dying from an overdose doesn't make it any less real. But that's

Lets real talk, we do have proof one way or the other if we take it on a case by case basis. The question is simple, does taking this special cbd oil, which I assume as above the uk level limit thc level, help this child with his seizures? If it does, which the doctors here are saying it does, and the home secretary as obviously seen the evidence and expert opinion before making his ruling then it DOES work.

That's not how medical testing works and it's not how laws regarding drugs should be made. There are good reasons why drugs are tightly regulated and the existence of some cases that might or might not be connected to the drug aren't sufficient evidence to make law on it. Many people have had medical problems improved by eating inert materials, injections of inert fluids, etc. That's why double-blind placebo trials are required.

I agree with your position here. I went many years not having any medications, which surprised my doctors. But then we reach a point in life when we are nearly forced to take some medication to help. I take meds but I try to keep it at the most minimum, as you say, because of the side effects.

And I expect one of my chronic pains to get progressively worse and I expect that one day I will decide that being addicted to painkillers will be the course of least harm for me. If that happens then I, like you, will take the appropriate drugs at the minimum dosage I need. There's a limit to how much pain I can manage.

I'm not opposed to drug usage as a matter of principle. I will and do use drugs with medical benefits as and when they're useful to me, assessing them on a risk/benefit basis. I have used and will continue to use drugs for recreational purposes, assessing them on a risk/fun basis. Only alcohol nowadays, infrequently and at a low dose. I have a bottle of beer every few weeks because I find it pleasant and consider the risk negligable. In the past, I have used illegal drugs recreationally because my risk/fun assessment was different (and I now think it was wrong).

I'm also not opposed to otherwise illegal drugs being used by volunteers in extreme circumstances in wildly experimental ways with little or no knowledge of any effects. Drugs or other medical stuff. My father was in that position once - he had a guaranteed fatal medical condition that would have killed him in a few years and was offered a highly experimental procedure that the doctor thought might stop him dying. Or might kill him there and then. It had been done twice before - one patient had died and one had survived. No bull, no sugar coating, no selling of "alternative" medicine (i.e. not medicine at all) at a high price to profit from other people's suffering. A genuine medical option and a genuinely informed choice made. He lived for another 40 years.

But I am opposed to the idea that a drug should be legalised because someone said it has medical benefits and I'm opposed to the idea that a drug should be legalised because it does have medical benefits and that means that the risks don't matter.
 
Do you think MS sufferers are faking that cannabis helps relieves the pain caused by their disease?

My uncle suffered with MS as long as I can remember. Cannabis relieved the pain he was in, without the majority of the side effects opiates would have caused, until he died a couple years ago.

In fact, **** you lot. I'm out. This is too personal for me. I wont be replying to this thread now...

But I will be.

1) Pain relief can occur from a drug and it can occur from placebo. Pain relief is one of the areas where the placebo effect is strongest.

2) I'll say it again - even if a drug does have some medical benefit (such as pain relief), that does not mean that it can't also have adverse effects and that does not mean that it should be legalised (although it's a very strong argument in favour of it being legal for doctors to prescribe it).

3) Can you point out anyone in this thread saying that MS sufferers who claim that cannabis helps relieve the pain they feel are lying? I'll answer that for you, so you won't even have to reply. You can't because it didn't happen.

As an aside, I'll throw in a (4) for free - as I have said before, I think that cannabis should be legalised.

Most of your points are conspiracy theories - Unless you think these people who are seizing on video and then receiving massive benefits from this oil are actors, I'm not really sure where you're going with your post.

You argued that the existence of videos on the internet saying something proves that it's true and that laws should be made and enforced on that basis. I was showing why your argument is wrong by providing some other examples. In a direct reply to your argument, quoting it.
 
Why would a doctor sign off on it if there's no evidence to suggest it's effective?

Even the Home Office agreed with whatever the doctors said to declare it a 'medical emergency'.

Is it a case of lack of evidence to support it due to lack of actual testing, or the testing that has been done shows it's not really effective?

If a patient improves when given a drug doctors are more likely than not to prescribe it because they err on the side of caution. It is really not quality evidence that a drug is effective, it is susceptible to observer bias and the placebo effect. This is why we use double blind trials to determine a drugs efficacy.

Note that no doctor is testifying here that this drug has had a major benefit on the patient, just the patients mother who is not medically qualified or an objective observer.

The side effects of alcohol are pretty short and it passes through the body quickly. Cannabis lingers for a long time and can lead to mental problems. Same as a lot of other drugs, which is why they are banned.

This is simply unscientific nonsense, the half life of many banned drugs is less than alcohol.

The fact that a drug might help some people with some conditions (and might not - there's little or no evidence for medical benefits of CBD, THC or any other cannabinoid) is not a valid argument for legalising it. It's not even a valid argument by itself for making it available on prescription - the massive opiod problem in the USA today was mainly caused by prescriptions.

I couldn't disagree more, ignoring how dubious and unscientific the argument for prohibition is, denying patients the right to choose is downright unethical.
 
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Talk about taking something and running with it...

There are heaps of other reasons, I just picked one.

I could write an essay on my arguments for legalisation - but it’s getting late, and I fear I’d be wasting my time.

(This is in reply to Angilion - I’m on my mobile, it’s coming up to 1AM, and I can’t be bothered to properly quote - Sue me :p)
 
Talk about taking something and running with it...

There are heaps of other reasons, I just picked one.

And I replied to what you wrote. That's how a forum should work. Why should I "reply" to arguments you haven't made and pretend you made them? Why do you think that would be a good idea?

I could write an essay on my arguments for legalisation - but it’s getting late, and I fear I’d be wasting my time.

If you have compelling arguments for legalisation and you could make them, why did you choose to only use the argument that anything that someone says is true on a video on the net is true and that laws should be made and enforced on that basis? You would have been hard pressed to make a less compelling argument.

I've already posted a link to several far more compelling arguments for legalisation. Writing nothing at all would be a more compelling argument for legalisation.

(This is in reply to Angilion - I’m on my mobile, it’s coming up to 1AM, and I can’t be bothered to properly quote - Sue me :p)

I'm not going to make things up and pretend you wrote them. Sue me :p
 
2) I'll say it again - even if a drug does have some medical benefit (such as pain relief), that does not mean that it can't also have adverse effects and that does not mean that it should be legalised (although it's a very strong argument in favour of it being legal for doctors to prescribe it).

This is the crux though.

Compare the downsides of cannabis, to the potential upsides.

Considering we boast about how our legal system is the finest in the world, when it comes to things like this, we are prehistoric.

Anecdotally, I have personally seen a friend who was given months to live from cancer when the final round of chemo made no difference (and trust me, when I made the effort to travel to see them this xmas just gone because nobody expected them to make it to new years, they were in really bad shape), to now being given years or longer after they started taking cannabis and cbd oil daily.
 
This is the crux though.

Compare the downsides of cannabis, to the potential upsides.

Nobody can do that because neither are known at all well. Which is why I think that the restrictions on bona fide research on cannabinoids in this country should be greatly reduced. As things stand, it's extremely difficult to do any research at all. All we know now is that THC gets people high, reduces pain, reduces their ability to do anything requiring concentration, fine motor control or reaction and can cause or be a factor in mental illness. We know even less about the other cannabinoids.

Considering we boast about how our legal system is the finest in the world, when it comes to things like this, we are prehistoric.

Anecdotally, I have personally seen a friend who was given months to live from cancer when the final round of chemo made no difference (and trust me, when I made the effort to travel to see them this xmas just gone because nobody expected them to make it to new years, they were in really bad shape), to now being given years or longer after they started taking cannabis and cbd oil daily.

Anecdotally, people have said the same thing about prayers. Anecdotally, people have said that apricot seeds cure cancer. Anecdotally, people have said that bleach enemas cure autism in children. And no, I am not making that last one up for the sake of hyperbole. Unfortunately, it's completely true.

I also know of someone with terminal cancer who took cbd oil (and maybe cannabis too, though I don't know about that) daily and had a reversal of cancer so rapid and so extreme that the consultant called another consultant to consult with them (consultception! :) ) because the results were so bizarrely unexpected. Not complete remission, but close enough for it to be initially unclear whether or not they still had cancer.

Was that caused by cannabinoids? If so, how? If so, which cannabinoid? Or which combination? If so, what is the most effective combination? If so, does the most effective combination vary from person to person? If so, why and how can the most effective combination for any person be determined? If so, can other related drugs be developed to give more options since there's so much variation in cancers that options are a very good idea?

We don't know the answer to any of those questions. I think research should be done to find those answers. Actual research, not anecdotes and advocacy videos. Not people profiting from "alternative" medicine regardless of the cost to other people. That's what we've got now and it's a bad thing.
 
  • CBD or any form of cannabis oil DOES NOT cure Cancer.

  • There are more than 100 types of cancer.

  • There are over 7,000,000,000 people in the world with completley unique DNA.

  • The average cancer cure rate is close to 60% using conventional therapies (i.e. Chemotherapy, Radiotherapy, Surgery and soon to be wider uses of Immunotherapy).

  • The International cannaboid research society have been conducting research on the effects of cannaboid molecules in the treatment of disease for 28 years across over 15 countries with thousands of scientists, not one study has shown anything but negative effects in the active treatment of cancer.

  • Whilst there have been some mildly promising results in lab environments, this does not translate to the more complex patient level.

  • Negative effects discovered during lab tests have also revealed that cannaboids can cause damage to crucial blood vessels as well as exacerbation of tumor growth rates and potential worsening prognosis for cancer sufferers.
 
I think what people are missing in this debate is that the doctors were saying the treatment was working. This isn't some hypothetical debate. We're talking about a specific case and the needs of this child. Its working and the doctors agree.

Trying to make the case that cannabis does nothing is insulting to the medical professions in the US and Canada, as well as the fact cannabis based medication is already being prescribed for MS in this country.

I think the people who are against cannabis yet advocate for the current medicated drugs, that include drugs containing cocaine, heroin, speed and other opiates + alcohol being legal are being hypocritical. Those medications have a proven negative effect that is far greater than the negative effects of cannabis. We already see the data and can compare them. So unless you are advocating for the removal of alcohol and all cocaine, heroin, speed and other opiate medications then you are being a hypocrit imho.

The case for the medical benefits of cannabis as already been argued and won, or it wouldn't already be in use for MS in this country, and in use for a range of other conditions in other countries.

All this debate is really about is, can the restriction on only using cannabis-based drugs for MS be widened for other conditions. I say yes.

CBD or any form of cannabis oil DOES NOT cure Cancer.

That is both a strawman statement and misleading.

1) Nobody is claiming CBD oil cures cancer.
2) The current conventional treatments don't cure cancer either.
3) There are anecdotal evidence by individuals that it helps them through a range of conditions, mainly by helping boost the immune system.
 
I think what people are missing in this debate is that the doctors were saying the treatment was working. This isn't some hypothetical debate. We're talking about a specific case and the needs of this child. Its working and the doctors agree.

Trying to make the case that cannabis does nothing is insulting to the medical professions in the US and Canada, as well as the fact cannabis based medication is already being prescribed for MS in this country.

I think the people who are against cannabis yet advocate for the current medicated drugs, that include drugs containing cocaine, heroin, speed and other opiates + alcohol being legal are being hypocritical. Those medications have a proven negative effect that is far greater than the negative effects of cannabis. We already see the data and can compare them. So unless you are advocating for the removal of alcohol and all cocaine, heroin, speed and other opiate medications then you are being a hypocrit imho.

The case for the medical benefits of cannabis as already been argued and won, or it wouldn't already be in use for MS in this country, and

That is both a strawman statement and misleading.

1) Nobody is claiming CBD oil cures cancer.
2) The current conventional treatments don't cure cancer either.
3) There are anecdotal evidence by individuals that it helps them through a range of conditions, mainly by helping boost the immune system.

Nobody is claiming CBD oil cures cancer? I personally know 3 people in my immediate friend group that claim it does and ive had debates with people selling the stuff..

The current conventional methods dont cure cancer either? Look at my post.. 60% of cancers are cured through conventional treatments.. millions of people anually are cured using chemo/radiotherapy/surgery and immunotherapy..

Anecdotal evidence does not provide the grounds to have something prescribed my the NHS or offered as an alternative to conventional treatments.. that would be dangerous and idiotic.
 
Nobody is claiming CBD oil cures cancer? I personally know 3 people in my immediate friend group that claim it does and ive had debates with people selling the stuff..

The current conventional methods dont cure cancer either? Look at my post.. 60% of cancers are cured through conventional treatments.. millions of people anually are cured using chemo/radiotherapy/surgery and immunotherapy..

Anecdotal evidence does not provide the grounds to have something prescribed my the NHS or offered as an alternative to conventional treatments.. that would be dangerous and idiotic.

Wouldn't it be great if we could research into this ourselves? Fact is, there isn't any facts out there because of its legality.

As I said before, the UK will fall to legalization after other countries put in the research and prove that it is medicinally beneficial.

We should be taking a stand, but we won't with the current government in power.
 
Medicinal Mary Jane is a real thing in Holland, someone I know got it for his schizophrenia which is odd as that's probably what gave it to him in the first place. Medicinal marijuana is nothing like you'd think. It's like smoking tea.
 
Talking from less of a medicinal stand point - You only need to take a look at how Uruguay is doing, when it comes to the "War on Drugs".

They have reduced their healthcare and incarceration strain by large amounts by legalizing all drugs. We should be helping addicts rather than sending them to prison without rehabilitation - It's been a massive success.
 
I couldn't disagree more, ignoring how dubious and unscientific the argument for prohibition is, denying patients the right to choose is downright unethical.

Strange position.
What others medications would you allow before full testing, out of interest?
Or what makes this particular thing exempt to your reasoning?
 
Strange that Victoria Atkins MP in the Home Office responsible for drugs policy is an ardent anti-cannabis reformer and maintains the Govt line that it has no therapeutic value, but then the HO has granted a licence to her husbands company, British Sugar, to grow medical marijuana. They have a 45 acre greenhouse in Norfolk, making the UK the world's largest exporter of cannabis derived medicines.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...abis-paul-kenward-british-sugar-a8356056.html
 
Nobody is claiming CBD oil cures cancer? I personally know 3 people in my immediate friend group that claim it does and ive had debates with people selling the stuff..

The current conventional methods dont cure cancer either? Look at my post.. 60% of cancers are cured through conventional treatments.. millions of people anually are cured using chemo/radiotherapy/surgery and immunotherapy..

I think saying they have been cured of cancer is a misleading word. If you go to hospital and the cancer appears to go away they say you are in remission.

I personally know someone who in the US who flies to California and gets a cannabis-based treatment from a licensed doctor. The cancers appear to be shrinking and with cannabis there isn't the same side effects as with conventional treatments.

Anecdotal evidence does not provide the grounds to have something prescribed my the NHS or offered as an alternative to conventional treatments.. that would be dangerous and idiotic.

IT IS ALREADY PRESCIBED ON THE NHS

https://www.mstrust.org.uk/a-z/sativex-nabiximols

Sativex (nabiximols) is the first cannabis-based medicine to be licensed in the UK. The drug can prescribed for the treatment for MS-related spasticity when a person has shown inadequate response to other symptomatic treatments or found their side effects intolerable. Sativex can be used in addition to a person's current anti-spasticity medication.

This thread is about a little boy who was denied cannabis based treatment that had been proven to the satisfactory standards of his doctors, both in Canada and the health care team in the UK. When the medication was confiscated the home office was told by both the mother and his team that the boys seizures would get worse, and sure enough he had 3 violent seizures, enough to be hospitalised. The home office then consulted a medical expert and handed the medication back to the boys health care team and I gather he is now recovering. But dude, have some perspective and respect for what you are saying. You are putting an opinion across that you would take his medication away, even when we've seen what happened.

I'm done with the thread. I hope cannabis based products become more widely accessable for at least medical needs. I know in the disabled community there are a lot of people using it for pain relief. They have been doing this for many years, it was even documented on tv about 25 years ago. This as been a long battle.
 
Strange position.
What others medications would you allow before full testing, out of interest?
Or what makes this particular thing exempt to your reasoning?

Strange? It's a commonly held libertarian position. No substance should be banned from a doctor prescribing it.

I take it you're not familiar with the term "off-label", every single doctor prescribes medications which are not "fully tested" for a condition to patients, they prescribe drugs based on their expert judgement and the evidence available.
 
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