Hose pipe ban?

[Semple]

I'm confused, if he pays his water bill where is the issue. Do people have the same feelings about serial gas or electricity wasters. I mean the nerve having the heating on all day or your pc on all day.
As far as i'm concerned i can use as much water as i like, if the supplier needs to increase delivery than charge a bit more and fix it so we don't have this issue.

The difference is, you're paying per unit used if you want to have the heating on all day.

You could guarantee that if his neighbour suddenly had to change to a water meter, his 'habits' would change pretty rapidly.

If you honestly would use the same amount of water on a meter as on a fixed rate, then obviously there's no issue.

The point remains though, that if water companies forced everyone over to meters, then it'd be very unlikely there would be a demand on the system, even during heatwaves.

 

[SPG]

More people in the UK than ever can you remember when the last major water reservoir was built ? Nor me.

They make profit year on year, yet put the red target on the customer to save water instead of them fixing major leaks and upgrading infrastructure accordingly.

Yet again its more short term thinking of the UK political scene to put something in place.

I will continue to water my garden with a hosepipe as its nice in the evening to sit in it, if a hose pipe bans comes along then i will just do with a very very large bucket.

We do not live a desert, enough water drops here to sort it out.

 

[LeeUK]

I'm confused, if he pays his water bill where is the issue. Do people have the same feelings about serial gas or electricity wasters. I mean the nerve having the heating on all day or your pc on all day.
As far as i'm concerned i can use as much water as i like, if the supplier needs to increase delivery than charge a bit more and fix it so we don't have this issue.

Err.. because he's not on a meter and pays the same no matter how much water he uses. Leave your heating on all day and you pay more do you not?

 

[robj20]

Err.. because he's not on a meter and pays the same no matter how much water he uses. Leave your heating on all day and you pay more do you not?

So what exactly is illegal about not having a meter?

 

[Skillmister]

So what exactly is illegal about not having a meter?

Where did he say it was illegal? Do you actually get a kick out of being deliberately obtuse?

I changed to a water meter when I moved into my house in October as for just me with limited water "wasting" activities it's cheaper. I rarely wash the car and if I do it's buckets only except a rinse, don't have a garden worth watering at the moment and occasionally sprayed down the bike if it got muddy over winter.

 

[Kaka]

Are those on unmetered using that much water though? The quoted cost in this thread seems very high.

Despite being on a meter and our yearly cost being below UK average, I'm surprised our household of 4 people use so little water. This is washing our cars quite frequently, jet washing the patio and decking, weekly pond water changes etc.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Is there a plan for everyone to be moved over to water meters, similarly to the plan for everyone to be on smart meters for electric.

That is the eventual aim, yes.

I'm confused, if he pays his water bill where is the issue. Do people have the same feelings about serial gas or electricity wasters.

Water is a communal supply and shortages are far more likely than electricity.

As far as i'm concerned i can use as much water as i like, if the supplier needs to increase delivery than charge a bit more and fix it so we don't have this issue.

Because people are bitching about meters and wanting to stay on rates, that means we'd have to increase rates for the whole of Manchester (well, your catchment, at least) just so you can use as much as you like.
People don't like paying for others' usage.

More people in the UK than ever can you remember when the last major water reservoir was built ?

Roughly yes, although I can look up the exact dates of all of them. We've moved over to a lot of smaller models and alternative storage since, though.
We have several new large ones we're trying to get built, but like most things - NOBODY wants it built anywhere near them, the local councils want fees paying for every inch of road that we'd even touch during the build, and the Environment Agency doesn't like building of any kind... so you'll have to just not get any water.

They make profit year on year, yet put the red target on the customer to save water instead of them fixing major leaks and upgrading infrastructure accordingly.

Oh, fix the leaks.... sure. When shall we do that, then? Today? Tomorrow? Sorry, local council won't let us in for 3 weeks. Fix another leak? Sorry, can't get to it as some company built your lovely fast fibre internet and electrical stuff over the top. Fix a different one? Sorry, that requires parking suspensions, and someone built a listed building over the top of it. Fix that big one over there? Yeah, no worries - Track possession is already booked... earliest they would give us is 2039. Next?

Upgrade the infrastructure... Oh yeah, sure. We'll just take down the train lines for the next year or so, pay for replacement bus services, suspend a whole bunch of main roads, do the upgrades and then hike your bills accordingly.
I don't think you realise just how involved such things are now that civilisation has expanded over everything, or just how many different groups and individuals will oppose our work, either so they can claim a cut of the fees or just so they can complain to the Daily Fail...

Oh, and "profits"..... yeah, do you have a pension? Most of our shareholders and investors are pension schemes. That's something that so often gets forgotten in all the whiny 'water company profits' articles...

We do not live a desert, enough water drops here to sort it out.

You think that's all there is to it?
Feel free to come take over and sort it out, then... All yours!!

 

[robj20]

Where did he say it was illegal? Do you actually get a kick out of being deliberately obtuse?

I changed to a water meter when I moved into my house in October as for just me with limited water "wasting" activities it's cheaper. I rarely wash the car and if I do it's buckets only except a rinse, don't have a garden worth watering at the moment and occasionally sprayed down the bike if it got muddy over winter.

No. Just trying to make a point of what exactly are people that aren't on meters doing wrong by using as much water as they want. Nothing.

I like using as much water as I want, compare it to unlimited broadband Vs capped.

 

[robj20]

Are those on unmetered using that much water though? The quoted cost in this thread seems very high.

Despite being on a meter and our yearly cost being below UK average, I'm surprised our household of 4 people use so little water. This is washing our cars quite frequently, jet washing the patio and decking, weekly pond water changes etc.

Exactly I don't waste water but I still use as much as I want, I probably pay double what someone on a meter does. But I like the freedom to increase my usage without paying any more.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I probably pay double what someone on a meter does. But I like the freedom to increase my usage without paying any more.

You'll probably find that you could increase your use and still pay less than the double you currently do... That's like buying a £45 all-zones peak ticket every day when you only do a £15 local return, just in case you one day fancy going into the city centre...!!

 

[SPG]

So after all your excuses above for fixing leaks (they are nothing but excuses btw, hide behind the red tape) efficiency can only do so much.

Comes to point when you need to build more infrastructure due to increased demand.

So....

Build a new nuclear plant by the sea and the use power for desalination plants.
Compulsory purchase orders of land and build the Abbingdon reservoir.

Oh i would also nationalise the entire water network, so we can plan some infrastructure instead of more red-tape hiding by the water companies.

 

[mattyg]

Its impossible to waste water!... We can miss use...But waste????

 

[ttaskmaster]

So after all your excuses above for fixing leaks (they are nothing but excuses btw, hide behind the red tape) efficiency can only do so much.

Like I said, if you think you can do better, you're welcome to come and take charge....

Comes to point when you need to build more infrastructure due to increased demand.

Yes.
Absolutely.
100%
Totally agree...

So......

Where are we gonna build it?
Who is going to pay for it?
Who is going to get all the opposing bodies out of our way?

Compulsory purchase orders of land and build the Abbingdon reservoir.

Yeah, we don't have that power. It's only an application anyway, rather than anything we can enforce. It's also subject to numerous other entities who can object and block it, it takes many years of work for something the size of a reservoir, it costs an absolute bomb and is already several years behind the demand profile. They've been trying to build that reservoir for decades. Despite massive demand, it's still facing severe objection...

Oh i would also nationalise the entire water network, so we can plan some infrastructure instead of more red-tape hiding by the water companies.

Renationalise??!!
AHH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Good luck with that..... I mean, it'd be easy enough to just order it so, but you'd kiss goodbye to any dreams you had of getting anything done. You can also expect customers to get utterly fleeced by even more red tape and bureaucracy (ie, the main reason it got privatised in the first place), but this time with official government backing instead of them overseeing. You'd also be lucky if you retained any of the staff who knew where the assets are and how they all work.
So yeah - Best of luck, matey.

 

[robj20]

The biggest laugh of all is that businesses are exempt yet a local car wash place leave there hose running constantly just lying on the ground. Yet I wouldn't be allowed to water a couple of hanging baskets with a hose.

 

[mattyg]

The biggest laugh of all is that businesses are exempt yet a local car wash place leave there hose running constantly just lying on the ground. Yet I wouldn't be allowed to water a couple of hanging baskets with a hose.

It does seem daft (especially leaving the hose on) But your not likely to lose your home over not watering your plants...Businesses need continuation of service..

 

[BinnsY]

I'm confused, if he pays his water bill where is the issue. Do people have the same feelings about serial gas or electricity wasters. I mean the nerve having the heating on all day or your pc on all day.
As far as i'm concerned i can use as much water as i like, if the supplier needs to increase delivery than charge a bit more and fix it so we don't have this issue.

This is an unbelievably simplistic attitude. You seem to be under the impression that the water companies should have the infrastructure in place to be able to cope with a huge spike in demand the like of which we essentially haven't seen for 30+ years. It's just like the people that moan we can't grit all of our roads in winter because we have one exceptionally bad winter every 10 years. No company in the world can realistically organise it's infrastructure to cope for extremes like this. And if you do it would simply be wasted investment for the 99% of the time it is needed. Your setup your infrastructure to cope with the average use 99% of the time, and build in extra processing to cope for reasonable spikes. A three week long increase in heat like this is not "reasonable" for the UK's normal weather, and as such you wouldn't expect companies to be equipped to constantly cope with it.

The sad truth is that if everyone moderated their usage it would be fine. It's the people that think filling their pool daily, or sprinkling their lawn for hours on end are more important than ensuring drinking water is avaialble for all. No one is suggesting people should stop using water, it's simply a case of being sensible with it!

If we were plunged into a month long cold snap and gas reserves were depleting I'd suggest that people do the same to moderate gass for sensible usage as well. It's just good common sense.

 

[LeeUK]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-44699523

Ironic.

 

[NickK]

Though you can only fill the pond if not doing so would result in loss of said livestock, not just because it's a bit low.

Not sure but others on koi forum have checked.. no point in waiting to fill - having dried up rotting algae and plants is as bad to humans as it is the plants. The water level then reduces the size of the pond and the temps got up.. killing the fish.

 

[chris.tarry85]

Like I said, if you think you can do better, you're welcome to come and take charge....


Yes.
Absolutely.
100%
Totally agree...

So......
.

Guessing from your location that you work for Thames Water? They are the absolute worst example of privatisation - compare the amount of dividends they have paid over the last decade with the amount of corporation tax and the huge pension deficit. The amount they are borrowing has massively increased too - where exactly has all this money gone?

Certainly not into any investment around here where it look them 10 weeks to fix a leak and where every winter sewage regularly floods the school playing field and is then pumped into the local river.

For some strange reason they have no concerns over capacity when new developments are proposed though - brown envelopes perhaps...

 

[Haggisman]

No. Just trying to make a point of what exactly are people that aren't on meters doing wrong by using as much water as they want. Nothing.

I like using as much water as I want, compare it to unlimited broadband Vs capped.

And yet if everyone on unlimited broadband downloaded 20TB a day, you can guarantee that either prices for unlimited packages would would shoot up, or no one would offer them, thus ruining it for everyone. Its called being responsible and considerate, something severely lacking in today's entitled society.

Also, without a meter, you're not paying for "unlimited" water, you're paying based on the average amount a household of your type would use, e.g. based on size, house value etc. If it were truly unlimited, then everyone without a meter would pay the same amount whether they were in a 1 bedroom flat or 8 bedroom manor house, you don't see Virgin charging more if you have a bigger house do you?