How can employers get away with this?

[dowie]

I ****ing hate that statement with a passion, it just reinforces employers taking the **** and employees willing to accept it. Employment isn't one sided, it's a two way street, you want their money just as much as they want your time and expertise, and so things should flow freely between the two parties, not one side taking liberties because they can. You'll never here me mutter the phrase "I'm thankful just to have a job".

but you'd be pretty dumb to take one in that industry and expect to work 35 hour weeks - or at least, if that's what you want, then find a suitable employer to cater for it

 

[dazzerd]

Ultimately if the contract says 35 hours excluding lunch breaks then legally your friend only needs to work the 35 hours to receive the salary specified in the contract.

If they choose to work more hours and they have no agreement on overtime then your friend is literally working those extra for free.

It is a tricky situation though. I work in Financial Services and have done for a long time, some companies are decent others are not. So if your friend challenges them then their response may be down to the culture in the business.

If this was me and the manager cannot be trusted to make a reasonable decision then I would just go straight to HR to be honest as this is clearly a breach of contract, especially if your friend is being forced to work those extra hours.

Being new to the role though this is likely to cause issues. A tough one I'm afraid but legally they have no ground to stand on and cannot just change the terms of the contact at a whim.

And by the way it doesn't happen everywhere such behaviour simply breeds resentment and a fear culture. Not good to be working in an office where such behaviour is accepted, especially in Financial Services.

 

[M1k3H]

for people saying the salary is "for the work to be done" and not by hour, if I completed all the work I was given in 10 hours and left, would I be in the right then?

In my job only high ranked managers are paid like this. But they are into 6 figures so they are paid enough to not care about it. And even they get bonuses every year.

Sometimes I had to work more than 20 hours overtime, come in on bank holidays and weekends. If I was not getting overtime, I would be working as slow as possible to "get the job done" and not bother coming in weekends/bank holidays.

But because I am getting overtime this gives me an incentive for more work, so when people ask me to stay late or come in on a day that I am supposed to be home relaxing, I do without hesitations.

Also for the people saying "you are lucky you have a job" get a grip!
Imagine if someone told that to someone requesting some basic working rights to be established. Just because some are unlucky, it does not give the right to employers to do whatever the hell they want.

 

[FutileBreadMachine]

Every company I've worked at in London is 9am-6pm except the NHS which was 9am-5pm. They all make you sign that working hours opt-out so they can make you work as long as they want, regardless of the hours in your contract.

 

[UncleRuckus]

If they have stated that it's a 35 hour week in your contract then on the first day being told actually no your hours have increased by 14% and you're not being paid anymore, I'd be pretty ****ed at this.


I understand some overtime is needed to meet the needs of the business but that's pretty cheeky.

 

[bloodiedathame]

Welcome to the financial industry.

Welcome to pretty much any industry. Just bend over and take it.

 

[D.P.]

Welcome to the real world, most of us turn up at 8-8:30 and leave at 6-6:30pm and are paid 40hrs. It is called the real world, you are paid a salary not an hourly rate so the hours in our contract are just a guideline minimum really.

And eyes, EU regulation and other crap will say differently, but when you have responsibilities and work as a professional then they just don't apply in practice. I expect a most of mindless replies from people who take pride in pooping at work on the companies time etc.

 

[zegna]

The 'lucky you have a job' thing is usually reserved for those that haven't developed a profession..

I always put in the work I need to put in, so some days I will work 14 hours, some days 7. I don't like micro-management where I get told (directly or indirectly) when I should come and go.

But as I am very good at what I do, if anyone gives me trouble I will be out and working somewhere else within a week.


However, saying the above, if this is a stepping stone, or a means to an end sorta gig - Then put in the time and be the bitch for a year a two.. We all did it!

 

[D.P.]

well it likely will be - its called a pay rise/bonus/promotion

alternatively you can stick to the contracted hours - but if everyone else in the office is putting in extra then you're the one who will likely be left behind (unless you're ridiculously good at what you do) - they're more likely paying him based upon their expectations that he, like most other people, will put in a bit more... if he doesn't then expect that salary to be eroded down by inflation and lack of rises.

You can also expect more and ore tasks to be handed to you forcing you to work longer hours, if you keep walking out the door at 5pm then sooner or later you will be fired for failing to to accomplish the required workload in a timely manner.

 

[M1k3H]

Welcome to the real world, most of us turn up at 8-8:30 and leave at 6-6:30pm and are paid 40hrs. It is called the real world, you are paid a salary not an hourly rate so the hours in our contract are just a guideline minimum really.

And eyes, EU regulation and other crap will say differently, but when you have responsibilities and work as a professional then they just don't apply in practice. I expect a most of mindless replies from people who take pride in pooping at work on the companies time etc.

So they expect you to be "professional" about it, but they are not?

Great companies these are.

 

[UncleRuckus]

Certainly works out well for the business, they get to wrangle themselves out of paying for another member of staff for every seven they hire in this case.

 

[D.P.]

On the odd week, sure I've no problem with a couple hours to finish off a project or so, but if I was expected to work 40 hours every week, i'd expect to be paid for 40 hours every week...

Thing is that is easy to arrange, just get paid less per an hour and end up at the same salary for the same 40+hrs!

 

[D.P.]

So they expect you to be "professional" about it, but they are not?

Great companies these are.

I don't see how you get that the companies aren't being professional. This is the norm across industry. If you are a skilled worker getting a killed workers salary, benefits and perks then you can expect to work more than the nominal hours they state in a contract that is only written to please to EU bigwigs. You are paid money to do a job, if you aren't willing to do that job then you can quit.

 

[M1k3H]

I don't see how you get that the companies aren't being professional. This is the norm across industry. If you are a skilled worker getting a killed workers salary, benefits and perks then you can expect to work more than the nominal hours they state in a contract that is only written to please to EU bigwigs. You are paid money to do a job, if you aren't willing to do that job then you can quit.

When my contract says 35 hours, I'll work 35 hours. If it says otherwise I'll do that. But I won't do anything more. If they don't like it, fine, I can find a job easy enough.

"please the EU bigwigs", what is that supposed to mean? Abolish all worker's rights?? Rights are there for a reason, and that is to stop big companies from exploiting people in need!

And on the contrary, if I'm a skilled worker, I would imagine the company would pay me by the hour for my provision of skills, and not DEMAND me to work more, for the same amount of money agreed upon in my contract.

Can you also please answer my question from above? If I finish said given work in less than 35 hours, am I allowed to leave and go home?

 

[Theophany]

I don't see how you get that the companies aren't being professional. This is the norm across industry. If you are a skilled worker getting a killed workers salary, benefits and perks then you can expect to work more than the nominal hours they state in a contract that is only written to please to EU bigwigs. You are paid money to do a job, if you aren't willing to do that job then you can quit.

This, tbh.

Plus, a 40hr week is not exactly a hardship if the salary is commensurate.

 

[Kenai]

When my contract says 35 hours, I'll work 35 hours. If it says otherwise I'll do that. But I won't do anything more.

Do you find this attitude has borne you well at work and contributed to continued and increased success / promotions etc.?

I know a few people like this and they're all the same people wondering why everyone else seems to get more opportunities than they do.

 

[M1k3H]

Do you find this attitude has borne you well at work and contributed to continued and increased success / promotions etc.?

I know a few people like this and they're all the same people wondering why everyone else seems to get more opportunities than they do.

Actually yes. Because of the overtime I work harder, and because I'm known of my good, hard work, more people ask for my input in projects, resulting in even more overtime.

 

[cymatty]

When my contract says 35 hours, I'll work 35 hours. If it says otherwise I'll do that. But I won't do anything more. If they don't like it, fine, I can find a job easy enough.

I used to have that attitude but then I realised that it was probably not going to do me any good and it was about give and take. If I work extra and then need some time off for something that it will balance out a bit.

I also think being willing to work extra looks good from a promotion aspect, if you just do the hours even when a little more would have helped its going to look bad if others are willing to do it. Recently for example I travelled to another site on a Sunday night so that I could have a 9am start Monday morning.

Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those people who stay an hour for no reason, if I get the work done then I will try to go on time. Most of the time I do leave on time and my review was still good because of the quantity and quality of work that I did.

 

[dowie]

When my contract says 35 hours, I'll work 35 hours. If it says otherwise I'll do that. But I won't do anything more. If they don't like it, fine, I can find a job easy enough.

If you work only your contracted hours in that industry then you're unlikely to progress... it would likely have a fairly negative effect on your career, your perception etc... You're free to do it though - no one is forcing you to compete with your co-workers and by opting, from the outset, to do the bare minimum you're essentially placing yourself right at the bottom of the pile.

Can you also please answer my question from above? If I finish said given work in less than 35 hours, am I allowed to leave and go home?

With these sorts of roles you'll likely find there is a never ending list of things to do - some things *have* to be finished by a deadline, others aren't so urgent... its unlikely that you're going to have nothing to do.

 

[D.P.]

When my contract says 35 hours, I'll work 35 hours. If it says otherwise I'll do that. But I won't do anything more. If they don't like it, fine, I can find a job easy enough.

"please the EU bigwigs", what is that supposed to mean? Abolish all worker's rights?? Rights are there for a reason, and that is to stop big companies from exploiting people in need!

And on the contrary, if I'm a skilled worker, I would imagine the company would pay me by the hour for my provision of skills, and not DEMAND me to work more, for the same amount of money agreed upon in my contract.

Can you also please answer my question from above? If I finish said given work in less than 35 hours, am I allowed to leave and go home?

You can work your stated hours, just don't expect any promotion, pay rise or bonus and to get fired as soon as an appropriate reason comes up, like you are not meeting expected deadlines like your colleagues manage to do and so are under-performing.
Skilled workers don't get paid by the hour, you are getting mixed up with unskilled workers.

And yes, if you meet all deadlines and have been productive then any reasonable company will let you walk out with less hours. I certainly often walk out after 5-6 hours if I had finished a suitable work unit, but I am equally likely to in the office more than and 11 hours! The thing is if you are regularly complete work in far less then the minimum estimate then you have a management issue.A good manager will see that you are exceptionally talented, increase your work load to get you the 40-50 hrs but reward you with bigger bonuses, larger pay rises and push you for promotion ASAP. Then again it is probably fine to always be finishing early If you are an exceptional employee but that is unlikely and is difficult to show, especially if you are the one responsible for making time estimates.

And something is very wrong is you only have a short stack of work on your plate, my work stack is pages and pages long of taks that need to be done at some point. I work on the priority items, if I get these done early then I can look at some of the items lower in the list.