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Poll: How do you game? Upscaling or native? (updated poll choices - 24/12, revote!)

How do you game?


  • Total voters
    237
Caporegime
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Poll options I'm considering:

TAA + Native (RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (RTX GPU owner)
TAA + Native (Non RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (non RTX GPU owner)
DLDSR + DLSS
DLSS
FSR

Can't really have every possible option as it would look too messy and might as well remove the ones that have no votes to clean it up somewhat as it's clear no one except a small handful of amd owners use FSR and no need to seperate it by brand of gpu due to the non rtx and rtx aspect.

Welcome to other suggestions and of course if people will cry "trying to change the outcome" (even though it's impossible since the core options are still the same and in fact, will result in less votes for "dlss" due to the addition of dldsr.....) then I won't bother requesting the change.
 
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TNA

TNA

Caporegime
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Poll options I'm considering:

TAA + Native (RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (RTX GPU owner)
TAA + Native (Non RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (non RTX GPU owner)
DLDSR + DLSS
DLSS
FSR

Can't really have every possible option as it would look too messy and might as well remove the ones that have no votes to clean it up somewhat as it's clear no one except a small handful of amd owners use FSR and no need to seperate it by brand of gpu due to the non rtx and rtx aspect.

Welcome to other suggestions and of course if people will cry "trying to change the outcome" (even though it's impossible since the core options are still the same and in fact, will result in less votes for "dlss" due to the addition of dldsr.....) then I won't bother requesting the change.

Make a new poll. Leave this one be. Just make sure you think it through this time and don't amend it :cry:
 
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Possibly FSR. What res and preset were you using?

FSR 2 and DLSS replace the native TAA implementation but it's roughly a simiilar concept.

Worth watching this:


FSR 2 may have been improved with an update iirc as it was originally very poor at release iirc but some sites had different takes:



I was using the high preset at 3440 x 1440 for Alan Wake 2.

A Plague Tale: Requiem I played at 4K.

In most games I think it'd be a different story with FSR if its presets didn't start at such a giant resolution drop. FSR and DLSS quality is 67% of native resolution. When the option for custom sliding resolution scaling is available, I usually don't tolerate going below 85%. A drop of 15% resolution can still result in a very meaningful performance increase at almost no image quality cost.
 
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Since you've finally discovered your thread was never about upscaling (for better performance)and was actually always about games with bad implementations of (t)aa where an upscaler(with better aa) is required to remove the TAA why not just start a new thread and discuss it instead of Frankensteining this one again.

You could even do a service and highlight the games that have the most image stability issues without looking for every opportunity to clap for NVIDIA. Another poll on taa won't do much as the decision will vary depending on the game ,how lazy the devs were and or game engine along with the resolution people play at etc.

A better question for use of an upscaler might have been if you don't achieve your desired frame rate in a game do you :
Lower settings before dlss/fsr/xess
Use dlss/fsr/xess then lower settings
Suffer with low frame rate
Don't play the game until you upgrade your gpu
*Add RTX/non-RTX options .

Make a decision about what you think your thread/poll is about and then stick to it.
 
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Caporegime
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Make a new poll. Leave this one be. Just make sure you think it through this time and don't amend it :cry:

Good idea, can then cross reference to this one! :D

Will wait to see if DF/John does a video on upscaling and TAA first though before creating a thread, given all the noise about TAA/upscaling in general going about now, I suspect we'll be seeing some video channels covering it perhaps, especially now that gamers who can't stand it are pushing at it from an "accessibility" pov, which will most likely get attention driven towards this from game devs.

I was using the high preset at 3440 x 1440 for Alan Wake 2.

A Plague Tale: Requiem I played at 4K.

In most games I think it'd be a different story with FSR if its presets didn't start at such a giant resolution drop. FSR and DLSS quality is 67% of native resolution. When the option for custom sliding resolution scaling is available, I usually don't tolerate going below 85%. A drop of 15% resolution can still result in a very meaningful performance increase at almost no image quality cost.

Depends a lot on the game especially with fsr since it is up to the devs to get the best from it, worth experimenting to see what works best. One thing to remember is that post processing effects negatively impact TAA and upscaling output so always worth turning them off.

Since you've finally discovered your thread was never about upscaling (for better performance)and was actually always about games with bad implementations of (t)aa where an upscaler(with better aa) is required to remove the TAA why not just start a new thread and discuss it instead of Frankensteining this one again.

You could even do a service and highlight the games that have the most image stability issues without looking for every opportunity to clap for NVIDIA. Another poll on taa won't do much as the decision will vary depending on the game ,how lazy the devs were and or game engine along with the resolution people play at etc.

A better question for use of an upscaler might have been if you don't achieve your desired frame rate in a game do you :
Lower settings before dlss/fsr/xess
Use dlss/fsr/xess then lower settings
Suffer with low frame rate
Don't play the game until you upgrade your gpu
*Add RTX/non-RTX options .

Make a decision about what you think your thread/poll is about and then stick to it.

The thread has and always will be about what "you use on a daily basis", again, nothing more than that and nothing to do with preference. The more granular options is to provide a better insight as to why though i.e. do nvidia owners use native because they can't use dlss and so on.

That would be a good poll though your suggestion and perhaps another thread for it.

I'll leave this poll/thread as is.
 
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The thread has and always will be about what "you use on a daily basis", again, nothing more than that and nothing to do with preference. The more granular options is to provide a better insight as to why though i.e. do nvidia owners use native because they can't use dlss and so on.
yes, "what upscaler you use on a daily basis". You got lost in your own thread from the very beginning. All your posts talk about is bad TAA and the use of DLAA, DLDSR+DLSS etc. But not in the context of upscaling ;)

If you don't need more performance and you are looking for a better image stability to replace TAA an RTX owner could use
DLAA (not always available , may need mod to replace DLSS resolution with native)
or DLDSR+DLSS(requires additional steps for desktop res etc) or
DLSS to obtain better AA with the downside of having a lower render resolution. Will depend on the individual and monitor res if they notice this in game

I'm not sure why you are pushing those use cases as "upscaling" as only the last one is "upscaling" and its for the purpose of removing bad AA and not "upscaling"
 
Caporegime
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yes, "what upscaler you use on a daily basis". You got lost in your own thread from the very beginning. All your posts talk about is bad TAA and the use of DLAA, DLDSR+DLSS etc. But not in the context of upscaling ;)

If you don't need more performance and you are looking for a better image stability to replace TAA an RTX owner could use
DLAA (not always available , may need mod to replace DLSS resolution with native)
or DLDSR+DLSS(requires additional steps for desktop res etc) or
DLSS to obtain better AA with the downside of having a lower render resolution. Will depend on the individual and monitor res if they notice this in game

I'm not sure why you are pushing those use cases as "upscaling" as only the last one is "upscaling" and its for the purpose of removing bad AA and not "upscaling"

No, the thread concept has never changed, the only thing that changed was wanting to get more insight into where the votes where coming from as hardly anyone followed the OP format of:

gpu - 3080
res - 3440x1440 and 4k
reason you use your chosen upscaling tech or native - dlss provides better IQ and temporal stability than native in most cases whilst providing a substantial performance boost, it also exhibits less ghosting than native TAA implementations. Also, in combination with DLDSR, it can provide much better IQ than even my 4k display for clarity yet still perform similarly or better than just using dlss or native

Most of the posts in the thread until the poll change was by amd users, hence, again, the specific change to have a nvidia and amd option for native...... Breaking the poll into options provided a better insight where the votes where coming from and also gives a better idea as to which gpu brand owners use upscaling more or not as much, if at all, as shown, people are more likely to use DLSS (if they can) over XESS and FSR for example. This is where I would at the very least like to change that part to see if the nvidia owners voting native simply can't use dlss and refuse to use FSR so the only option is native for them.

I'm not sure why you're trying to push other narrative for what this poll is about, it's quite simple really, you vote what you use on a daily basis of your gaming and it's designed in such a way to understand the reason for said votes, again, if people followed the above format, wouldn't have to provide such a granular poll......

DLAA is native resolution therefore it will never be an option.

There have been multiple discussion points throughout the thread about TAA, DLAA and so on, which are somewhat relevant to the poll.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how or what the final image output is achieved, you simply use what is best for your needs and whatever your reasons are but as shown via several sources with evidence (unless someone can debunk said sources with actual evidence other than "native is better" then there is no other reason to believe otherwise):

DLDSR > DLSS + DLDSR > Native and no TAA > Upscaling (more so DLSS) > Native + TAA

I also think you're missing the point I am putting across about TAA too, people say they don't want to use DLSS and so on because of the "issues" yet as evidenced, they say they will use native (which as shown, 90% of games have TAA now and cannot be forced off most of the time) thus they are getting a worse experience in terms of IQ and also not getting as good as performance running native + TAA
 
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DLDSR > DLSS + DLDSR > Native and no TAA > Upscaling (more so DLSS) > Native + TAA
If that is how you game ,your poll never split native into with TAA and without TAA, therefore I assume you voted Native as your first 2 are not upscaling. ;)

TAA deserves its own discussion as you are using upscaling to solve it instead of trying to address the actual issue.

I also think you're missing the point I am putting across about TAA too, people say they don't want to use DLSS and so on because of the "issues" yet as evidenced, they say they will use native (which as shown, 90% of games have TAA now and cannot be forced off most of the time) thus they are getting a worse experience in terms of IQ and also not getting as good as performance running native + TAA
If the point is about upscaling then I'm not missing it....... You are choosing to blast anyone that picked native with information about bad implementations of TAA. So again TAA is the problem not the render resolution or upscaling choice.
 
Caporegime
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If that is how you game ,your poll never split native into with TAA and without TAA, therefore I assume you voted Native as your first 2 are not upscaling. ;)

TAA deserves its own discussion as you are using upscaling to solve it instead of trying to address the actual issue.


If the point is about upscaling then I'm not missing it....... You are choosing to blast anyone that picked native with information about bad implementations of TAA. So again TAA is the problem not the render resolution or upscaling choice.

Because people are giving the reasons why they don't use upscaling I.e. "iq is super bad, native rules" hence why I'm curious are they then going to the length to disable taa? Cause if not, well as evidenced, they're in fact getting a worse experience by not using dlss or at least disabling taa at native.

As for the list there, that's just general consensus on what is best based on sites who do comparisons. If those were the options for said poll, my vote based on the poll of "what do you use most often" would still be dlss only due to better performance on my 3080 than using dldsr (dldsr + dlss perf is equivalent to native perf or sometimes slightly better), if I had a 4090, then dldsr + dlss would get the vote as I would use it more often since it has the performance for that. I would also choose native + taa over native and no taa as I rather have a softer/blurrier image over jaggies, shimmering/aliasing issues.
 
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Because people are giving the reasons why they don't use upscaling I.e. "iq is super bad, native rules"
what people are saying that? or is this another one of the made of "some people posts"? You asked what upscaler people use. And because "some people" said native you highlighted how bad TAA is. So if anything it's you saying "NaTiVE sUckS , TAA bAD"

I'm curious are they then going to the length to disable taa? Cause if not, well as evidenced, they're in fact getting a worse experience by not using dlss or at least disabling taa at native.
That might be true but you don't know what resolution anyone is using or what games they are playing or if they even had access to DLSS. So banging on about "native sucks because TAA" is just trying to tell everyone they are wrong when you never provided that context in your question or possible answers.

I would also choose native + taa over native and no taa as I rather have a softer/blurrier image over jaggies, shimmering/aliasing issues
maybe the people that chose native also prefer this? Or the games they play don't use TAA?

So again, maybe better of to create a thread about bad TAA in modern games, what games are the biggest offenders, and what options people have to get around the issues with forced TAA as it will vary depending on the game ,gpu and resolution people use.
 
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This thread with the sudden poll-switch is a good demonstration that you need to carefully consider the questions you ask, or you might end up with an answer that you didn't want.

Anyway, I have a 7900XTX, which is capable of acceptable frame rates at 4k native, so that's what I use.
 
Caporegime
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what people are saying that? or is this another one of the made of "some people posts"? You asked what upscaler people use. And because "some people" said native you highlighted how bad TAA is. So if anything it's you saying "NaTiVE sUckS , TAA bAD"

I'm not wasting my time going back through the thread to quote posts stating that. Also, the fact people also say, "no need to use it as I already achieve performance I need" indicates that people associate upscaling purely for gaining extra performance and nothing else, which then ties in with the points I and mrk make about people not really understanding the concept of upscaling etc. or/and insinuating that native has better IQ (which might very well be the case if you value clarity above all else and go out of your way to disable TAA [if you can])

That might be true but you don't know what resolution anyone is using or what games they are playing or if they even had access to DLSS. So banging on about "native sucks because TAA" is just trying to tell everyone they are wrong when you never provided that context in your question or possible answers.

maybe the people that chose native also prefer this? Or the games they play don't use TAA?

Hence why these options would tell the story much better but alas, the crying will still happen:

TAA + Native (RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (RTX GPU owner)
TAA + Native (Non RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (non RTX GPU owner)
DLDSR + DLSS
DLSS
FSR

So again, maybe better of to create a thread about bad TAA in modern games, what games are the biggest offenders, and what options people have to get around the issues with forced TAA as it will vary depending on the game ,gpu and resolution people use.

That's completely different to what this thread is for as you are then bringing a whole range of factors into play along with "preference".

Again, the thread poll is entirely down to how people game on a daily basis, nothing more. As per my very OP

This is purely for how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference". If you prefer native but use dlss, fsr, xess, you vote for whatever one it is that you use and don't vote for native. In your post, you can explain your preference to use native or upscaling for whatever reason.

This thread with the sudden poll-switch is a good demonstration that you need to carefully consider the questions you ask, or you might end up with an answer that you didn't want.

Anyway, I have a 7900XTX, which is capable of acceptable frame rates at 4k native, so that's what I use.

Rather the poll evolved because of the following "FACTS":

- people weren't posting as per the OP format
- majority of posts were from amd users

In order to get a better insight into where/who was voting what, the core options stayed the same but added options to do a better job as people didn't bother following the OP.....

You're most welcome to explain how the change to the poll was an effort to change the "outcome" as so far no one else has been able to answer this :cry:
 
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I'm not wasting my time going back through the thread to quote posts stating that
So its another made up fact then.
Also, the fact people also say, "no need to use it as I already achieve performance I need" indicates that people associate upscaling purely for gaining extra performance and nothing else, which then ties in with the points I and mrk make about people not really understanding the concept of upscaling etc. or/and insinuating that native has better IQ (which might very well be the case if you value clarity above all else and go out of your way to disable TAA [if you can])
kind of similar as to why you would use milk as a moisturizer because it tastes nicer when you drink it.
That's completely different to what this thread is for as you are then bringing a whole range of factors into play along with "preference".

Again, the thread poll is entirely down to how people game on a daily basis, nothing more. As per my very OP
Yes, I agree the thread is about what upscaler you use. Not about the pros/cons of TAA in some games.
Rather the poll evolved because of the following "FACTS":

- people weren't posting as per the OP format
- majority of posts were from amd users

In order to get a better insight into where/who was voting what, the core options stayed the same but added options to do a better job as people didn't bother following the OP.....

You're most welcome to explain how the change to the poll was an effort to change the "outcome" as so far no one else has been able to answer this :cry:
You have no evidence of that. And the 2nd poll still indicates majority of people have nvidia gpus. Kind of makes sense since nvidia have the largest share of the market.

The poll evolved because it was always a loaded question in order to draw people out to criticize them for using native when "NAtive is bad, TAA sucks". But your op or poll doesn't take this into account. Third time lucky maybe.

You are happy to use upscaling to solve problems with TAA, but that doesn't address the actual issue with forced TAA in games.

You have the names of everyone that uses (prefers)native instead of upscaling.Tag them and explain to them why they voted wrong in your polls.
 
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Caporegime
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So its another made up fact then.

kind of similar as to why you would use milk as a moisturizer because it tastes nicer when you drink it.

Yes, I agree the thread is about what upscaler you use. Not about the pros/cons of TAA in some games.

The poll evolved because it was always a loaded question in order to draw people out to criticize them for using native when "NAtive is bad, TAA sucks". But your op or poll doesnt take this into account. Third time lucky maybe.

You are happy to use upscaling to solve problems with TAA, but that doesn't address the actual issue with forced TAA in games.

Another made up fact :cry: The posts are right in this thread and also the usual suspects have posted their takes on this before many times so don't do the usual of fingers in ears because it doesn't fit your narrative. Tommy our dear member for example has always stated how 4k native on his qd oled 75" is king for IQ compared to "blurry dlss", maybe he plays old games all the time then? PS. generally if a game doesn't have taa then it won't have dlss etc. either because for such technology, it requires motion based vectors, which generally means, if said game has TAA, it has motion based vectors.

kind of similar as to why you would use milk as a moisturizer because it tastes nicer when you drink it.

Dodging the point then? Good to see the norm.

Yes, I agree the thread is about what upscaler you use. Not about the pros/cons of TAA in some games.

Emmm what..... You got to be trolling now or literally you are missing the point.....

The poll evolved because it was always a loaded question in order to draw people out to criticize them for using native when "NAtive is bad, TAA sucks". But your op or poll doesnt take this into account. Third time lucky maybe.

You are happy to use upscaling to solve problems with TAA, but that doesn't address the actual issue with forced TAA in games.

Again, you are obviously getting caught up in your own narrative now, read this post "thoroughly" again as I will simply be repeating the same point again......

No, the thread concept has never changed, the only thing that changed was wanting to get more insight into where the votes where coming from as hardly anyone followed the OP format of:



Most of the posts in the thread until the poll change was by amd users, hence, again, the specific change to have a nvidia and amd option for native...... Breaking the poll into options provided a better insight where the votes where coming from and also gives a better idea as to which gpu brand owners use upscaling more or not as much, if at all, as shown, people are more likely to use DLSS (if they can) over XESS and FSR for example. This is where I would at the very least like to change that part to see if the nvidia owners voting native simply can't use dlss and refuse to use FSR so the only option is native for them.

I'm not sure why you're trying to push other narrative for what this poll is about, it's quite simple really, you vote what you use on a daily basis of your gaming and it's designed in such a way to understand the reason for said votes, again, if people followed the above format, wouldn't have to provide such a granular poll......

DLAA is native resolution therefore it will never be an option.

There have been multiple discussion points throughout the thread about TAA, DLAA and so on, which are somewhat relevant to the poll.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how or what the final image output is achieved, you simply use what is best for your needs and whatever your reasons are but as shown via several sources with evidence (unless someone can debunk said sources with actual evidence other than "native is better" then there is no other reason to believe otherwise):

DLDSR > DLSS + DLDSR > Native and no TAA > Upscaling (more so DLSS) > Native + TAA

I also think you're missing the point I am putting across about TAA too, people say they don't want to use DLSS and so on because of the "issues" yet as evidenced, they say they will use native (which as shown, 90% of games have TAA now and cannot be forced off most of the time) thus they are getting a worse experience in terms of IQ and also not getting as good as performance running native + TAA
 
Caporegime
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You have no evidence of that. And the 2nd poll still indicates majority of people have nvidia gpus. Kind of makes sense since nvidia have the largest share of the market.


You have the names of everyone that uses (prefers)native instead of upscaling.Tag them and explain to them why they voted wrong in your polls.

I have no evidence? Read the thread right up to when stanners posted saying he changed the poll..... majority of posts were amd users..... Again, you can do this, I'm not wasting my time.

And the 2nd poll still indicates majority of people have nvidia gpus

Well done, are we finally getting there?


Who would have thought, a thread/poll on how you game daily and changing it to be more granular would cause so much upset/anger :cry: No offence but it is just screaming that there is something about the results that you don't like and I'm honestly not sure what it is? As native is still "winning" overall (which it should be given the core options DID NOT change) so what's the issue exactly?

Or better yet, can you tell me what the issue will be with an updated poll of this:

TAA + Native (RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (RTX GPU owner)
TAA + Native (Non RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (non RTX GPU owner)
DLDSR + DLSS
DLSS
FSR

and before we get the usual answers:

"diluting the perception of the vote" - if all you pay attention to is a bar, then yeah that's your problem, there's a reason we learned math
"changing the outcome because not the answer you want to see" - explain how? maybe if native was removed entirely, yes, but it's not
"want dlss to come out higher" - if anything, dlss will get less votes as more will vote DLDSR + DLSS
 
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So no evidence then.

I don't have any issue really, As as per usual you just scream about narratives. I don't have one....
I also don't care for the results, They don't tell me anything new. What would exactly would "winning" mean??

I just thought since most people voted already and the conversation was dead (other than you trying to tell people they were wrong for their choice) you might want to ask the right questions in a new thread/poll.
I also suggested you could discuss/highlight why forced TAA was bad (and possible solutions with pros/cons) in another thread instead of lumping it and getting lost in a poll about upscaling.

You can't boil the use of upscaling down to a singular decision as there is way to many variables to consider for each individual person. Even the type of panel used could have an influence someones perception of native/taa/dlss

As I said already you got lost in your own thread and are answering a different question than the one you asked in the poll. Even your op is garbled and makes no sense.

and before we get the usual answers:
This is your problem, you pre-load your posts with stuff like this in order to bait people.


/end thread
 
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So no evidence then.

I don't have any issue really, As as per usual you just scream about narratives. I don't have one....
I also don't care for the results, They don't tell me anything new. What would exactly would "winning" mean??

I just thought since most people voted already and the conversation was dead (other than you trying to tell people they were wrong for their choice) you might want to ask the right questions in a new thread/poll.
I also suggested you could discuss/highlight why forced TAA was bad (and possible solutions with pros/cons) in another thread instead of lumping it and getting lost in a poll about upscaling.

You can't boil the use of upscaling down to a singular decision as there is way to many variables to consider for each individual person. Even the type of panel used could have an influence someones perception of native/taa/dlss

As I said already you got lost in your own thread and are answering a different question than the one you asked in the poll. Even your op is garbled and makes no sense.


This is your problem, you pre-load your posts with stuff like this in order to bait people.


/end thread

Your evidence is in the thread at the start right up to stanners post. It's your choice to ignore it, not mine.

Well it's your posts that are making it out like there is some huge meaning to the intent of this thread, I made it pretty clear in the OP, here, again if you can't be bothered to go back:

This is purely for how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference". If you prefer native but use dlss, fsr, xess, you vote for whatever one it is that you use and don't vote for native. In your post, you can explain your preference to use native or upscaling for whatever reason.

If people chose to discuss DLAA, TAA etc. in the thread, that's fine as the thread is about native, upscaling etc. i.e. it's discussion based, this should have no impact to the vote in the poll, again:

how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference"

This really isn't rocket science and just comes across like you are reading too much into the thread, my posts/discussion with other members on various things in an attempt to try and second guess me? Or intentionally telling me that I have another narrative/agenda for the poll results?

Only thing I've said is that the people who choose to use native for the reasons of "don't need extra perf", "value IQ" are most likely getting a worse experience instead of using DLSS (assuming they can) as evidenced by several sources, nothing more.

This is your problem, you pre-load your posts with stuff like this in order to bait people.

How's it baiting? Those are the exact responses I have had when I asked what the reason for hating the poll change was and yet still no one can actually answer this (which we have had people state as being the reason I change the poll in the first place.....):

explain how the change to the poll was an effort to change the "outcome"

So I'm still waiting to hear how?

So can I presume that the proposed updated poll is good then?
 
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Your evidence is in the thread at the start right up to stanners post. It's your choice to ignore it, not mine.
I'm not going to gather data for you. It didn't look to me like it was all AMD owners skewing the results. And it doesn't look like it 2nd time around either.

explain how the change to the poll was an effort to change the "outcome"
It didn't really change the outcome, but once you realized it was still nvidia users voting native you starting throwing shade about native + TAA sucks

how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference"
As many , many people have already tried to tell you, Its not a "one size fits all" solution. Gamers consider many different things before arriving at their decision.
If you use an upscaler in your day to day gaming its obviously a preference or people are being raped of pixels.

So can I presume that the proposed updated poll is good then?
Depends on what you want to get out of it. So only you can answer that
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Dec 2010
Posts
12,058
There is no need for a poll, I can tell you right now that the overwhelming majority of people will only use DLSS/FSR if they need to, like if the game has poor performance or has a crappy taa/fxaa implementation.

There is no point in putting a poll on this forum anyway. There are are too many fanboys for both brands that render the results of any poll meaningless. Besides the poll threads usually end up like this one has, pages and pages of fanboy arguments back and forth. And the only people who are going to take any notice of the poll are those fanboys whose agenda/brand that the poll results seem to support.
 
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