How to getthe best out of Octopus Flux
- Thread starter Ron-ski
- Start date
Soldato
This is what I said though you can't do daily manual reads for Flux exporting, as it's reliant on 30 min values and varies in the day.
Some of the smart meters do store data though, so it may be that your historical info is available.
Soldato
You should have some data from your grid out on the inverter to support figures at least, but find out if the smart meter data includes it.
They may have it.
Soldato
It would seems that flux is starting to pay off - now got £11 towards my gas bill
Yes, Flux is looking good, currently my energy bill for the month (23rd-22nd, so about 2/3 through) is at about £15 profit overall including gas and standing charges. Also, yesterday was my best day of the year so far for generation at 32.13KWh, which is closing in on my best day so far of 33.62KWh, which I'm hoping to beat this year as I only got the panels installed at the end of July, so missed the very best days.
I have found myself doing one extra little piece of juggling as the evenings are getting lighter, which is turning off solar battery charge after the peak period, as otherwise I'm getting an extra period of the battery charging again a little and then discharging, which is adding some extra usage to the battery, probably not a huge deal but seemed better to avoid it and just let the excess go the grid at 23p before doing the full recharge overnight at 20p.
I have found myself doing one extra little piece of juggling as the evenings are getting lighter, which is turning off solar battery charge after the peak period, as otherwise I'm getting an extra period of the battery charging again a little and then discharging, which is adding some extra usage to the battery, probably not a huge deal but seemed better to avoid it and just let the excess go the grid at 23p before doing the full recharge overnight at 20p.
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Sorry folks, I am a newby and signed up on finding this conversation on a Google search. I am looking at installing solar panels and a battery. House is SE/NW facing with a large dorma facing South. I'm getting all sorts of vendor quotes, all to be taken with a pinch of salt. But I was sent to look at a video which mentioned this Octopus tariff. Our British gas fixed at 17.8p/KWh ends in July, so expecting a BIG shock.
So what I am understanding from this tariff is that it has a high standing charge of 45.57p/day.
Rate of 34.18p/kWh
Peak (4pm to 7pm) of 47.85p/kWh
Then there is this "Flux Rate between 2am and 5am of 20.51p/kWh... It's not clear what this is, but from reading a bit of your conversation, this might be a "cheap" tariff for off peak. Is this correct? But that then also asks, what is the feed tariff?
What I was hoping was that we would live off our sun through the day, and use excess to top up our battery, and feed back any excess (summer most likely). Then between 4 and 7 pm, live off the battery, and on through the night. From 2am to 5am we'd top up the battery, charge the car and heat the hot water using the Octopus off peak flux rate.
Basically, can anyone put me straight, please?
So what I am understanding from this tariff is that it has a high standing charge of 45.57p/day.
Rate of 34.18p/kWh
Peak (4pm to 7pm) of 47.85p/kWh
Then there is this "Flux Rate between 2am and 5am of 20.51p/kWh... It's not clear what this is, but from reading a bit of your conversation, this might be a "cheap" tariff for off peak. Is this correct? But that then also asks, what is the feed tariff?
What I was hoping was that we would live off our sun through the day, and use excess to top up our battery, and feed back any excess (summer most likely). Then between 4 and 7 pm, live off the battery, and on through the night. From 2am to 5am we'd top up the battery, charge the car and heat the hot water using the Octopus off peak flux rate.
Basically, can anyone put me straight, please?
@Jonners59 welcome to the forum.
That's the gist of it, it's a time of use tariff, so you pay more to import when demand is high (16:00 - 19:00), and less when demand is low (02:00 to 05:00). But the most important part is the export, you get a really good export rate during the day, more than what you import at in the cheap rate period. Then in the peak rate you get an even better export rate.
I aim to fully charge my battery off peak, then export excess, discharge some from the battery in the peak period, and leave enough to last to 2am.
It's different for everyone, as the use case varies, but if you're going to have excess generation then its a good tariff to be on, but I don't have an electric car, so that will alter things. My electric bill for the last 28 days is minus £105, which more than covers my gas bill.
Post your quotes in this thread https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/36393035/
That's the gist of it, it's a time of use tariff, so you pay more to import when demand is high (16:00 - 19:00), and less when demand is low (02:00 to 05:00). But the most important part is the export, you get a really good export rate during the day, more than what you import at in the cheap rate period. Then in the peak rate you get an even better export rate.
I aim to fully charge my battery off peak, then export excess, discharge some from the battery in the peak period, and leave enough to last to 2am.
It's different for everyone, as the use case varies, but if you're going to have excess generation then its a good tariff to be on, but I don't have an electric car, so that will alter things. My electric bill for the last 28 days is minus £105, which more than covers my gas bill.
Post your quotes in this thread https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/36393035/
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Soldato
A lot will depend on ratio of expect import to export
With an EV if your importing a lot you want Go or Intelligent
People with the ability to generate a decent excess certainly gain from Flux this time of year
Not many will in winter months though so will look to switch away
With an EV if your importing a lot you want Go or Intelligent
People with the ability to generate a decent excess certainly gain from Flux this time of year
Not many will in winter months though so will look to switch away
Sigh had my bill through today after first month on flux and similar to yourself all export missing... Billed me £66 but expected to be about £4 in credit (octopus watch)
Got in touch and they've said a half hourly read is missing..
@Ron-ski @Mercenary Keyboard Warrior
Guys many thanks. Appreciated. I guess, without a complex tool to use, I am going to have to assume that the tariff will give me a return, and I will have to play with when I take, when I am solo, and when I feed back. The biggest problem is we haven't as yet got a smart meter, so the hourly detail is missing, and things, like the car, can be a tad erratic. Sure I can schedule the car, but sometimes that's not practicle (with kids/bank and taxi of dad), and a big charge could be called upon at any time, and can last 3 to 4 hours.
Anyway, so if this is the charges....
Standing charge of 45.57p/day.
Rate of 34.18p/kWh
Peak (4pm to 7pm) of 47.85p/kWh
2am and 5am of 20.51p/kWh
So, what are the EXPORT payments????????????
Guys many thanks. Appreciated. I guess, without a complex tool to use, I am going to have to assume that the tariff will give me a return, and I will have to play with when I take, when I am solo, and when I feed back. The biggest problem is we haven't as yet got a smart meter, so the hourly detail is missing, and things, like the car, can be a tad erratic. Sure I can schedule the car, but sometimes that's not practicle (with kids/bank and taxi of dad), and a big charge could be called upon at any time, and can last 3 to 4 hours.
Anyway, so if this is the charges....
Standing charge of 45.57p/day.
Rate of 34.18p/kWh
Peak (4pm to 7pm) of 47.85p/kWh
2am and 5am of 20.51p/kWh
So, what are the EXPORT payments????????????
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I finally got confirmation from British Gas that I won't be paid for exports, so hopefully Octopus will process that quickly and start crediting my account.
Soldato
Cheapest electric day yesterday of 98p and that includes my 52p standing charge……..not bad without a battery
Over £4 in exported power too……oh i love the sun
Over £4 in exported power too……oh i love the sun
I found this blog with some really useful analysis on Flux vs GO:
My conclusions are that:
Click on Image for a larger version. Estimates of the annual cost of electricity on the Octopus Go and Octopus FLUX tariffs as a function of the amount of solar generation. This applies to my household – see text for details – and assumes a 13.5 kWh storage battery.
protonsforbreakfast.wordpress.com
My conclusions are that:
- For small solar PV installations (<~4,000 kWh/year), the big savings from using the night time electricity on GO outweigh the gains from exporting electricity at a good price.
- For large solar PV installations (>~6,000 kWh/year), this situation is reversed: The savings from using the night time electricity on GO are outweighed by the gains from exporting electricity on the FLUX tariff.
- For medium-sized solar PV installations, the two tariffs have similar costs.
Click on Image for a larger version. Estimates of the annual cost of electricity on the Octopus Go and Octopus FLUX tariffs as a function of the amount of solar generation. This applies to my household – see text for details – and assumes a 13.5 kWh storage battery.
Tariff Calculations: Octopus GO versus Octopus FLUX
[There is a follow up article to this one with a better spreadsheet available here] Friends, I have struggled to write this article. As you may have noticed, it has taken weeks. I started writing a…
protonsforbreakfast.wordpress.com
Soldato
I found this blog with some really useful analysis on Flux vs GO:
My conclusions are that:
- For small solar PV installations (<~4,000 kWh/year), the big savings from using the night time electricity on GO outweigh the gains from exporting electricity at a good price.
- For large solar PV installations (>~6,000 kWh/year), this situation is reversed: The savings from using the night time electricity on GO are outweighed by the gains from exporting electricity on the FLUX tariff.
- For medium-sized solar PV installations, the two tariffs have similar costs.
Click on Image for a larger version. Estimates of the annual cost of electricity on the Octopus Go and Octopus FLUX tariffs as a function of the amount of solar generation. This applies to my household – see text for details – and assumes a 13.5 kWh storage battery.
Tariff Calculations: Octopus GO versus Octopus FLUX
[There is a follow up article to this one with a better spreadsheet available here] Friends, I have struggled to write this article. As you may have noticed, it has taken weeks. I started writing a…
Yes although thats a good base point your own usage needs to be factored in as well.
Unless your going to put effort to min max the use cases will vary.
Oh and the actual controls of your system to allow easiest and best usage of Flux.
Go is easy you only have two periods to worry about. Flux is more complicated and you need to be able to control it a little more.
My system for example could fully discharge the batteries in little over 1.5 hours on a dark day, on a good day my generation even 4-7 can be getting close to my max discharge rate so the rate i could afford to discharge at would be max, dark day shoudl probably retain a chunk to ensure the 3 hours are 100% non import.
The other thing is, for the majority even with a large array Flux will suck over the winter.
I would for sure be generating a profit on Flux right now on many days, but the bad days will be bleh.
So I think many will look to switch away from Flux in winter. Now Octopus say you can switch smart tariffs any time, but they also are supposed to have a cooling off period.
It should be noted that they may gatekeep Go more now. I would not assume that unless you meet the criteria you can 100% get back onto it should you leave it.
Other tariffs are ok as well though, Eco 7 with the wider lower unit cost window is not bad for winter as well.
But my and most people who I have seen analyse it come to the conclusion that both are very good tariffs. Flux will potentially make you money in summer but will cost more in winter.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
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This is the long and short of it i think....... i left Go Faster in middle of April and will be staying on Flux until end of September...... at that point however, so long as things go to plan i will go onto intelligent octopus.
(when on Flux i will charge my car at work - 14p /kwh
when on IO i will charge car at home on off peak prices)
whether i try to game the system and flip flop between IO and Flux every 6 months, i am not sure... to be honest i think Octopus may get cheesed off with me if i do.... not to mention my wife who already seems to struggle when is best to put the tumble drier on (2am on timer..... not that difficult
).Flux is a brilliant package for those without an EV but with solar and battery (which is what it is for)... but once you add a car into the mix then IO or Go over all will be better products i think.
the main issue with IO with an EV and solar / battery is getting them all to play nicely with the "bonus" cheap rates that IO gives out.
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Soldato
I found this blog with some really useful analysis on Flux vs GO:
My conclusions are that:
- For small solar PV installations (<~4,000 kWh/year), the big savings from using the night time electricity on GO outweigh the gains from exporting electricity at a good price.
- For large solar PV installations (>~6,000 kWh/year), this situation is reversed: The savings from using the night time electricity on GO are outweighed by the gains from exporting electricity on the FLUX tariff.
- For medium-sized solar PV installations, the two tariffs have similar costs.
Click on Image for a larger version. Estimates of the annual cost of electricity on the Octopus Go and Octopus FLUX tariffs as a function of the amount of solar generation. This applies to my household – see text for details – and assumes a 13.5 kWh storage battery.
Tariff Calculations: Octopus GO versus Octopus FLUX
[There is a follow up article to this one with a better spreadsheet available here] Friends, I have struggled to write this article. As you may have noticed, it has taken weeks. I started writing a…
Assumptions of staying on the same plan the entire year which is silly, and also how electric is used to heat the home in the winter, which also isn't the case for a lot of people (my electric usage is fairly flat, with gas spiking in winter for heating thanks to GFCH).
Changing plan in winter makes a lot of sense with Flux, so you have Flux for 5-6 months, and then Go or something else cheap off-peak for the other 6-7 months.