Hungarian Grand Prix 2012, Budapest - Race 11/20

Kenai said:
I'm sure you know deep down, just as I do that they will have used this in an illegal fashion during this season but it can't be proved. Clever on Red Bulls part in one sense but this sort of thing goes beyond 'bending the rules' to just flat out breaking them in the knowledge no one could prove you did it, which goes beyond any notion of decent sportsmanship.
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Again they don't have to prove they used it, they didn't or couldn't prove BAR ever ran underweight. They had the facility to run underweight even though do so would mean the car wouldn't run. BAR even proved that at no time they could run underweight.

It didn't matter, because they had the facility to, they got a 2 race ban.

Red Bull or the FIA don't need to prove if they used it. It shouldn't be there anyway according to the rules.

2 race ban should be the minimum. After the BAR fiasco the fia stated they would come down even harder on this sort of thing to deter out right cheats.
It just shouldn't even be there as an option. They don't have to prove anything.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Again they don't have to prove they used it, they didn't or couldn't prove BAR ever ran underweight. They had the facility to run underweight even though do so would mean the car wouldn't run. BAR even proved that at no time they could run underweight.

It didn't matter, because they had the facility to, they got a 2 race ban.

Red Bull or the FIA don't need to prove if they used it. It shouldn't be there anyway according to the rules.

2 race ban should be the minimum. After the BAR fiasco the fia stated they would come down even harder on this sort of thing to deter out right cheats.
It just shouldn't even be there as an option. They don't have to prove anything.
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You seemed to have missed the point I was making, which is that all that can be proved is what is on the face of it, a minor technicality in terms of rule breaking.

The fact they've almost certainly used it for an advantage yet this can't be proven and used to drive a more meaningful punishment is what grates more than the violation itself.

We all know why such functionality would be there but no one can prove it was ever used so all that they can be pulled up for is a minor technicality rather than the blatant actual cheating that we know they'll have been getting up to with it that would (should?) almost certainly call for a rather more substantial punishment.

If you actually read my posts, you'd see i'm perfectly aware of everything you've just explained to me :p
 
Two years ago there was suspicions that RBR was running a ride height device to run low fuel during qualification and high fuel during the race with little difference in ride height between the two.

If this is the case then they could have possibly using this mechanism for two years or more.

Anyway you look at it they've been caught multiple times this year breaking the rules, plus another time where they squirmed their way out on a technicality. Yet still not one sanction, enough is enough tbh.
 
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hominid said:
If this is the case then they could have possibly using this mechanism for two years or more.
.
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That was my train of thought and possibly why the FIA didn't dare touch it or follow through. If this is all true of course.

They would then be in a scenario where the last 2 years results are in doubt and the FIA would really want that brushed under the carpet.

IF this is true and they were caught altering the ride height they should be excluded from the title or at the very least a 2 race ban like BAR got.
 
utajoker said:
red bull could actually cheat and still go un punished
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it certainly feels that way , multiple times now we have saw redbull "bend" the rules and possibly break them with impunity

i feel if it were ferrari or mclaren a hammer would descend upon them from from low orbit
 
dannyjo22 said:
They would then be in a scenario where the last 2 years results are in doubt and the FIA would really want that brushed under the carpet.

IF this is true and they were caught altering the ride height they should be excluded from the title or at the very least a 2 race ban like BAR got.
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The thing is the FIA don't like to retroactively change results of races or especially championships.

Just like when benneton removed the fuel filters from the refill rigs in 1994 iirc, also had traction control that deleted itself from the ECU when the car was switched off so undetectable to anyone that inspects it. Result from those two major infractions - nothing. Either was enough to exclude them from the championship, but as it was found out after the end of the season nothing was done except a harshly worded letter.
 
hominid said:
The thing is the FIA don't like to retroactively change results of races or especially championships.

Just like when benneton removed the fuel filters from the refill rigs in 1994 iirc, also had traction control that deleted itself from the ECU when the car was switched off so undetectable to anyone that inspects it. Result from those two major infractions - nothing. Either was enough to exclude them from the championship, but as it was found out after the end of the season nothing was done except a harshly worded letter.
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1997 was a good year for them.

Schumacher excluded from the championship.
 
Flibster said:
1997 was a good year for them.

Schumacher excluded from the championship.
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Ok but it didn't mean anything to Schumacher, if the results had stayed the same he would have still lost the championship - so 2nd or NC doesn't make much difference. They should have done the same when he crashed into Hill just after he crashed into the wall damaging his car but that result stood.

And it's different because it's an individual over a whole team, but I take your point. If they did the same to RBR they would lose the Constructors points but could leave the drivers points intact, same as they did to Mclaren.
 
FrankJH said:
but even 97 was retrospective (as MS HAD to beat JV to win the title, and MS took them both out with his actions)

so what the FIA did actually amounted to didly imo
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Eh?

Villeneuve was a point behind Schumacher.
Villeneuve finished the race in 3rd.

Are you thinking of 1994?
 
Flibster said:
Eh?

Villeneuve was a point behind Schumacher.
Villeneuve finished the race in 3rd.

Are you thinking of 1994?
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Villeneuve finished the race, Schumacher didn't, so Villeneuva ended the championship 1st over Over Schumacher 2nd - before he was excluded.
 
Also dc is never even classified as 2nd. Look in his autosport column it mentions him ad runner up but not in 97. The 97 penalty amounted to nothing.
 
RB ride height cheating allegations have gone back years so its no great shock, more interesting is-

-How long it may have gone on for
-how long the FIA knew it was going on.


RB being a team of cheating scumbags headed up with a team principle and driver who are competing against each other for 'king of the douchbags' title is nothing new, the FIA being fairly complicit in letting things go for too long is currently more worrying.
 
Yes! Good qualifying. I knew lotus would do well.. Praying for sun! if there is i predict a lotus 1,2 :-D
 
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