Hungary Grand Prix 2011, Hungaroring Circuit - Race 11/19

FrankJH said:
if anyone wins the race they ARE the quickest - at that point any one lap, quali performance , etc etc become redundant
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Amazingly you argue quite well the opposite to justify his pace when Lewis has beaten him. So basically what you are now saying is if jb laps 1second per lap faster and pulls out a 30 second lead and mclaren put him on the wrong tires you will happily concede Lewis was faster and it's the result that counts. I look forward to this because with mclaren we won't have to wait long.:D
 
Danny you have to remember that a driver is not a passenger. If he is happy to go along with a bad strategy...that's his fault. He can veto the team's (poor) strategy, if he wishes.

I think a few races ago (or was it the last race), Vettel ignored RBR's strategy call and I think it was a good decision for Vettel.

Similarly, when Senna/MSc were making their brilliant decisions, they had the final say.
 
It's the wet weather. I understand a driver has a better feel for the track on slicks and how long before he pits but when the rain starts to come down you can do nothing except trust Mclarens weather men and how long the duration of rain will last. Otherwise it's not worth having them.

If the Mclaren weather man was saying rain for duration 10 minutes and hamilton ignored him he would have been called a complete muppet.

Button was going to do the same, forget all the guff about him ignoring the call. They ignored it because they didn't want to stack up. If he was in the lead he would have pitted but that tale doesn't make as epic a story for mclaren.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14359737.stm

2.30 mins in, he says he ignores the call to queue for inters, the team then decided on him staying out. The team told him to stay out, this though has been turned into a magical button call again.
 
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dannyjo22 said:
It's the wet weather. I understand a driver has a better feel for the track on slicks and how long before he pits but when the rain starts to come down you can do nothing except trust Mclarens weather men and how long the duration of rain will last. Otherwise it's not worth having them.

If the Mclaren weather man was saying rain for duration 10 minutes and hamilton ignored him he would have been called a complete muppet.

Button was going to do the same, forget all the guff about him ignoring the call. They ignored it because they didn't want to stack up. If he was in the lead he would have pitted but that tale doesn't make as epic a story for mclaren.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14359737.stm

2.30 mins in, he says he ignores the call to queue not for inters, the team then decided on him staying out. The team told him to stay out, this though has been turned into a magical button call again.
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Totally agree, and even the team made Button's decision on doing softs for the last stint (according to his press conference interview)..

But, in his defense, perhaps his style makes it much easier for the strategists to get the calls right, he is after all Mr consistent, and that might be the key, With Lewis (and other teams seem to struggle as well) you have a case of someone ragging the car on the edge of it's limit all the time, with changeable conditions and unknown tyre behaviour, it's turning out to be much more risky..
 
I just think it was simplier than that.

Lewis was leading it started to rain, weather man said for x mins. He gets first choice.

Initially they asked Button to stack up behind, he didn't want to do that understandable.

2nd to last corner they give him the call to stay out, he stays out and it stops raining.

Had Button been in the lead he would have pitted and either Lewis would have stacked up or they would have told him to do one more lap. You only have to see the video to see the direction came from the team. I can fully understand how heavy the rain was coming down why it didn't make sense to stack up. Was he going to lose 10-15 seconds on the lap going round again to stacking up. Probably not.

This has turned from Button not wanting to stack up to Button didn't want inters, clearly from that video it's not true that it was Buttons choice or what he meant in ignoring the initial team message.
 
dannyjo22 said:
...this though has been turned into a magical button call again.
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It's amazing how many times Button "lucks" into these great strategic calls.
Perhaps, great luck in changeable weather conditions, is just one of Button's strengths.

Any sportsman needs luck to go his way...regardless of how good he is at his sport.

I'm a stats man myself and I can't see past the 5 wins for McLaren...all of them in wet/damp weather. The guy knows how to win races when it is wet/damp. Plain and simple.
 
sunama said:
You could argue that a lesser driver would've ended up queueing. My gut tells me that if Hamilton was asked to pit (and queue), he would've gone along with McLaren's call.
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In an interview Button said that he was told via radio just before be passed the pits to continue without coming in to change tyres, but he also said that he had already made his mind up not to go in anyway.. make of that what you will.
 
I doubt we'll ever really know what was going on...suffice to say it seems JB more often than not makes the correct call in those situations whilst Le Ham seems to get it wrong. However, all that could change if one or the other gets it wrong a couple of times...
I feel Demon has it right...Button's style makes it easier for him to wait a lap or two to see how it all pans out. I'm sure that he's been caught out like that however I can't remember a specific race off the top of my head
 
sunama said:
You could argue that a lesser driver would've ended up queueing. My gut tells me that if Hamilton was asked to pit (and queue), he would've gone along with McLaren's call.
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Hamilton has grown up in the arms of Mclaren, as such, he's a bit of a yes-man, and will tow the company line when told to. However Button isn't, he's had to argue for his race seat (including paying his own way during his time in brawn), so is more likely to think for himself.
 
sunama said:
Was he towing the company line when he was having the not-so-secret secret meeting with Horner? :p
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Indeed, and he is paid a fair whack, a clear sign that the team needs him, and is willing to retain him, that's not usually what happens with yes-men who get paid peanuts and struggle to get seats..

I'm standing by my changeable opinion that Hamilton's driving style throws in too many variables for the team to deal with in providing optimium strategies, especially when his performance generally improves on race-day, no matter how badly the car is setup in practice...

:)
 
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