I hate to say it..

LoadsaMoney said:
....
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Ohhhh you gonna get flammmmmmmed

The amount of people who say 'it is no hassle to keep sending it back' Well i think it would be tbh, need to keep waiting for deliveries, and every time you send you box away that is another week of live you have paid for lost, and another weeks worth of gaming in general you have lost.
 
Tried&Tested said:
There are a fair few more things that can go wrong with a 360 considering it is comprised of all of the components you mention there..plus a whole load more.

The red rings identify a hardware failure...it could be any of the hundreds, if not thousands, of individual components that are in there.
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thats just an excuse. he could have asked how many times have you had a component in your pc go down in the last two years? ive had........none, and pc's are far more complex than an xbox 360. At the end of the day its in their interest to keep it simple - simple = cheaper to produce.

4515_large_360_elite_mobo.jpg


360 elite motherboard. thats it, not really the most complex pcb, and from reports they are already failing. Ill be honest with you, i've built more complex surface mounted pcb's by hand. the problem is a fatal design flaw with either the cpu or the gpu. it has to be, because if it were anything else they could have changed the component quickly enough. Although frankly, they should have sorted it whatever it is by now.
 
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You're missing the point that this PCB contains a complex tri-core chip and a top end GPU. Do computers use the same PCBs for these? The problem is integration.
 
notice the epoxy around the CPU & GPU now ? Thats the attempted fix.. hopefully it will help as failure rates on the first rev are pretty shocking
 
Robert said:
You're missing the point that this PCB contains a complex tri-core chip and a top end GPU. Do computers use the same PCBs for these? The problem is integration.
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who's missing the point? me? did you miss me say it was a problem with one of them?

as for pcb's, most top end motherboards are more complex. far more so.

127fc.jpg


a bad axe 2 for example. would you expect a top end cpu and graphics card to survive 2 years problem-free with this board? yes. why then, are people making excuses for the 360. It shouldn't be happening at all, its about time people realised this.
 
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Robert said:
You're missing the point that this PCB contains a complex tri-core chip and a top end GPU. Do computers use the same PCBs for these? The problem is integration.
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surely a part built from the ground up should work better than an off the shelf mobo, off the shelf chip and off the shelf graphics card?

And that board isn't going to be a million times different to the way a lot of high end gaming laptops are set up surely?
 
its the X-Clamp that holds the CPU & CPU heatsinks on thats the problem, they do not apply even surface tension to either and over time can warp the mainboard also which inturn gives all these error and failures, there's a msaaive thread on a more dedicated xbox360 site about how to repair it yourself costing around £6 for some nuts and bolts and a few tension sping washers
 
james.miller said:
who's missing the point? me? did you miss me say it was a problem with one of them?

as for pcb's, most top end motherboards are more complex. far more so.



a bad axe 2 for example. would you expect a top end cpu and graphics card to survive 2 years problem-free with this board? yes. why then, are people making excuses for the 360. It shouldn't be happening at all, its about time people realised this.
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I'm saying - do you see a top end GPU on that board whilast using a built on CPU? No you don't, that's my point. Oh and did I make an excuse? People are willing to put up with their failures because they enjoy it. It's that simple.

I'm just saying you can't compare a motherboard to the 360 as it's far more than that. No - it isn't an excuse for the failure rate, but still.

And for the last time - I'm not defending the reliability. Yeah you probably could compare it to a laptop motherboard but not a standard motherboard.
 
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Robert said:
I'm saying - do you see a top end GPU on that board whilast using a built on CPU? No you don't, that's my point.
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im sorry but what kind of point is that? its more complex to design and build a system whereby you can swap in and other different components. far simpler to build everything to one exact spec, similar to how its easier to program for a console because specs never change. as for point, you can get motherboard with onboard gpu's and still run top and cpu's AND a top end graphics card. or even 2. complexity doesnt even come in to it, your jsut going to have to accept that.

Oh and did I make an excuse? People are willing to put up with their failures because they enjoy it. It's that simple.
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Im sorry but show me where i said your name? "The red rings identify a hardware failure...it could be any of the hundreds, if not thousands, of individual components that are in there" is an excuse. do you use it? if so then yes, you are making excuses.

I'm just saying you can't compare a motherboard to the 360 as it's far more than that. No - it isn't an excuse for the failure rate, but still.
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yes exactly. pc's are far more complex and they dont fail anywhere near as much so complexity is not the problem. now you understand my point, maybe we can move on?
 
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I never doubted that point - but you compared it to a motherboard...which brings my point.

Now do you get me?

Quote where I have stated that the 360 is more complex than a PC? Cheers.
 
I say:

Problem is integration

You say:

Here's a bad axe 2 motherboard.

I'm sorry - but who's calling who the fool? I haven't been agressive, I've been having a semi-debate with you. I suggest that you should chill out.
 
Robert said:
I say:

Problem is integration

You say:

Here's a bad axe 2 motherboard.

I'm sorry - but who's calling who the fool? I haven't been agressive, I've been having a semi-debate with you. I suggest that you should chill out.
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im calling you the fool. the bad axe photo is in comparison to the 360 pcb i posted, which which i directly quoted tried&tested regarding the well-used excues of 'its very complex'. Besides which, you referenced the 360 pcb and made the comparison anyway! im sorry if you don't understand that, but that's what you get for jumping to conclusions challenging accusations i never even made. maybe i should chill out, after all your attitude is frustrating me. your argument started because you misread my post.

ME: 'the problem is a fatal design flaw with either the cpu or the gpu'
YOU: 'You're missing the point that this PCB contains a complex tri-core chip and a top end GPU. Do computers use the same PCBs for these? The problem is integration.'

see? again, lets move forward now. unless you have something else you want to disect?
 
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Jihad said:
I will answer this also;

Had mine since January 2006.

My Room is awfully hot, especially the area with the 360.

It gets left on all night quite a lot since I fall asleep during movies quite often.
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It does use a lower power mode when playing DVDs though, 120w vs 180+w in a game running off the DVD.

Mine is running 4 hours a day or so owing to it being used as a WMCE extender when I'm not gaming.
 
Just out if interest how much would people be prepared to pay on top of the standard core/premium price to gaurentee a much better build quality / reliability.

Given that MS are charging X amount as it is, and either a design flaw (which potentially if caught at original design stage might have cost nothing ) or use of wrong / problematic componants - lets say a fan not cooling as effectively as it should or whatever (which might add to the current price)

Would adding £10 - £20 to get a fundamentally better designed product make it worth it for people

I realise this is possibly a hard question to answer, as reliability should be "free" on every kind of product (every electrical / electronic device will have some reliability problem but X360 is a lot worse than most it seems)

What do you guys think?
 
West said:
Still on my first :p
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Same here:p, mind you i havent turned mine for about a week now...kinda scared but then ive been playing on my bros 360 lately as he has it hooked up in the tv room.

Mind you i really have to wonder what in gods name you guys are doing to your 360's that are causing them to breakdown. Ive had mine since dec 2005 and i think ive only ever had one major crash which seemed to sort itself out somehow.
 
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Spawn said:
Mind you i really have to wonder what in gods name you guys are doing to your 360's that are causing them to breakdown.
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I don't mean to be argumentative but is that a joke ?,

I've had mine sitting on a marble stand elevated from the floor, hardly ever moved, dusted on a weekly basis, I used to think like you did, the day will come when you 360 gives up the ghost and when it does come on here and tell us what you did to cause it to breakdown please.
 
Spawn said:
Mind you i really have to wonder what in gods name you guys are doing to your 360's that are causing them to breakdown. Ive had mine since dec 2005 and i think ive only ever had one major crash which seemed to sort itself out somehow.
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Are you saying that it is your own fault if your 360 breaks down :(
 
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