I-Ram for pagefile?

ROfu · 22 Apr 2007 at 14:29

i think he means disabling the pagefile on the Iram not totaly - Im tempted to try it as a cache or games drive, but it is nice how windows doesnt require any time to recover after applications or games are over.
On another note.. surely the games/levels are loaded into pagefile anyway.. so - wouldnt the Iram in its current state be just as quick.
To be honest ive not noticed any loadtimes lately - dont know if it means thier quicker or my brain simply refuses to care after getting used to them for so long

edit appologies - after rereading your post, you said couldnt fit a game in 4gb, i was thinking you expected to turn off pagefile totaly hence the 4gb ram left on the board - rather you meant 4gb game filesize wouldnt fit on the iram if it were made a drive Doh! - been in a big discussion about VM and pagefile most of the day so mind on the wrong thing

.

Cheers
ROfu

Elric · 22 Apr 2007 at 21:55

if you're regularly using 4-8gb on win64 with 64 bit apps, why dont you just plump out for 8gb of ddr2 ram and have done with it, that would give you a bigger improvement in the apps.

ROfu · 22 Apr 2007 at 22:29

how much are 2gb ddr2 dimms atm? and how fast do they run.
All ive seen are insanely expensive and not particularly fast i regularly use just over 4gb of ram.. so buying 8gb would be awsome but not cost effective.. like mentioned i already had a pile of ddr1 memory left over from other builds and bought the Iram quite a few months ago when DD2 ram was very expensive in any configuration.

Also i would like to point out this was a test, irrelevant to practical useage.

(Of note Every windows based PC uses VM irrelevant to what settings and how much ram you have - even if you turn off VM theres still a temp swap so i wanted to see just how much difference it makes having swap as ram)

I'm more than happy with wasting 100bux on the Iram compared to over 1000 on replaceing all my ddr2 1gb dimms with ddr2 2gb dimms which run slower. Or reconfigure my entire system with a workstation board which has more than 4 dimm slots.. need to buy new cpus and new ECC memory

Cheers
ROfu

Massive Attack · 22 Apr 2007 at 23:03

i recived my corsair flash voyager GT a couple of days back and decided to run HD tach for a laugh as i was considering installing windows on it for my laptop but decided against it due to te crappy speeds, anyway here are my results, iram will be a lot faster but also quite abit more expensive if u dont have any spare dims.

ROfu · 23 Apr 2007 at 02:09

i quickly downloaded HD-tach, as it looked like an interesting benchmark which id never seen before the Iram speeds were:

constant 126mb/s for sequential read speed.
Burst speed 132mb/s
random Access 0.1ms
Cpu utilization 7%
average read speed 126.5mb/s

This results are actually considerably faster than i expected - although they do show the limitations to the Irams sata controller.

Iram is considerably more expensive and sadly very limited in size unless you want to go crazy and start raiding them - although for the few folks with spare dimms (not that uncommon for all the old ddr1 to ddr2 upgrades most folks have had lately) its still a great idea, for that little extra boost for pagefile or speedy cache for certain apps.

Cheers
ROfu

FoxEye · 23 Apr 2007 at 12:56

cavemanoc said:
Since you've got 4Gb installed, try disabling your pagefile and running the IRam as your 'games' drive - you will see a marked improvement on level loads etc...

I read in several places that "disabling your page file improves performace" is a myth.

Some programs will allocate a large chunk of virtual mem for themselves at startup. This is without any idea if the program will actually use it. If there is no page file, it's my understanding that those programs will try to secure a large chunk of physical memory instead. Again, without any idea if it will actually be used.

So all you gain from disabling page file is more physical RAM being locked (and potentially unused).

Best thing you can do, regardless of how much RAM you have, is to set a static 1-2gig page file on each hard drive, for concurrency.

ROfu · 23 Apr 2007 at 15:16

I read the same as you Foxeye.. but after rereading it i think he meant disabling the pagefile off the Iram, which i currently have it used for. I dont think he meant like i mentioned earlier disabling the page file entirely just off the iram and to use the iram as a games drive instead.

Cheers
ROfu

cavemanoc · 24 Apr 2007 at 08:18

Under XP (not longer valid in Vista) there was a LOT of debate on the PageFile issue and whether it was faster to disable it all together, place it on a seperate drive, have it large/small. I read many different theories, some outlined above and all with merit. In the end there's no substitute for trial and error. I tried it, and IN MY CASE I saw a marked improvement for my activities (single game running with not much in the background).

I have several theories - some will make sense to some, others will no doubt dismiss them as hokum - I don't mind - I ran with what worked for me

I did eventually have to give up as BF2 was rubbish at managing memory and fell over with the page file disabled - a shame as the load times were faster with it off :rolleyes:

EDIT: Just to clarify - if you're running XP, then try disabling the Pagefile, and putting whatever you're using on the I-Ram - BF2 level loads will be lightning fast

- but even if you don't want to disable your pagefile - I'd still be tempted to put your most popular programmes onto the I-Ram rather than your pagefile (have you got the full 4 GB?)

ROfu · 25 Apr 2007 at 15:37

I have all 4gb installed, as well as 4gb of Normal Ram.
I have reciently been working at home on a few projects which utilize all of my ram and a good chunk of pagefile. Today i realised just how fast my system is with Iram as pagefile. as an example with over 3gb of page in use i had a application crash (After Effects can get unwieldly) and my system recovered instantly. there was no dump where the HDD would normaly take a short while to flush itself it just gave me the option for my final save then went to the desktop with no fuss.. i restarted the app and was back up and running with no time loss (barring the actual error message).

Using the Iram for a games drive is, like a previous post stated, almost impossible, as there are very few if any current games that install in less than 4gb space. and those that do would fill it up and mean you only have access to one game at a time.

Considering this was just a little test initially - im very impressed with its functionality to assist with very smooth desktop usage.

I think for the time being i will continue to use the Iram as pagefile it seem the most intelegent use of the hardware and would whole heartedly recommend it for anyone with either spare/old DDR ram (remember any speed ddr1 will do as its top end will never be pushed) and recommend for anyone who does professional 3d or Video effects editing.

Cheers
ROfu

Well Splattered · 4 May 2007 at 15:53

Would you recommend FAT, FAT32 or NTFS to format and use? Tried FAT32 and its been ok. Cut the loading time down by 16seconds on a Skirmish on the 4 v 4 Route N13 map playing Company of Heroes.

Thats moving from a pair of Raptor 36gb in RAID0.

Zefan · 4 May 2007 at 15:53

That looks awesome!

ROfu · 4 May 2007 at 19:06

Well as your using it for games then i would suggest Fat32 as its a little quicker than NTFS, you also dont need all the security stuff from NTFS either. Only thing i will say is that fat32 gets fragmented quite quickly, I have no clue how this would effect the Iram.. i dont know if you would notice the performance degredation as you would on a HDD.. either way as its ram and only 4gb .. its not gonna take long to format it once a month

I would stick with Fat32 for a games drive definately.

Cheers
ROfu

Well Splattered · 5 May 2007 at 00:03

ROfu said:
its not gonna take long to format it once a month

I would stick with Fat32 for a games drive definately.

So true! Formatted it several times already. Some games do not want to copy over (from my Raptor array to I-Ram) and play from the I-Ram so a quick format (quicker than deleting) leaves it open for other games. The plan is too swap over the game I play most over to the I-Ram and leave the others on the raptor array.

Not really noticed an improvement in Windows with regards to paging as yet. Still on XP Home and using 3GB on the motherboard. I have used it for a short time, so maybe with more experience it will become evident. Bought another I-Ram and 4x1gb so will see what its like in RAID0 when I have the chance.

Bring on the Samsung 64gb SSD, cant find them anywhere!

Noticed on my Motherboard that I get approx 120mb/s on the NF4 SATA300 but only 98mb/s ish on the SIL3114 SATA150 chipset. Benefits of having onchip SATA, but what a difference! On boot up it only shows 3gb! Only in Windows does it show the full 4gb.

Also bought the quicker Corsair memory thinking that CAS2 would help latencies, but its actually slower than the Samsung based CAS3 memory on benchmarking!

What memory did you use?

Thanks
WS

EDIT: and thanks Zefan, it looks great

Also have some LED sticks here but not sure will be able to get the LED scrolling diaply working with I-RAM!

ROfu · 5 May 2007 at 01:30

i used some leftover OC 3200, mixed with some random value ram, both running at 3200.
The speed of the ram is irrelevant though, so dont waste your money on good quality ram, as it will have no effect as the speed of the ram will never get close to touched by the i-ram.

I'm also looking forward to the 64gb SSD hdd, I believe samsung are making a 128gb version too.. although this will be insanely expensive (so is the 64gb realy.. but i still want one).

As far as noticing any speed differences with the pagefile, itll only realy be on some very big apps, like Maya, Photoshop and After Effects, as they all use all of your system ram if its available and hammer the pagefile as well. most games wont hammer your pagefile, although they do use it a bit.
The speed the games close down will be an indication of the pagefile working well (rather than starting up - thats showing the iram read speed)

If your going to get a second I-ram i would suggest buying some OcUK value ram or kingston/cruicial value ram, any of this will be as quick as you have and itll be cheaper than wasting it on something that wont actually get any extra speed.

What games are you running off the I-ram as i found it difficult to fit a lot of the newer games when i tried it (although battlefield 2142 would be perfect size

)

As far as the new SSD drives..unless you have a wish to waste large sums of cash

, i would wait for these rather than buying another Iram setup.
as an Iram setup would problably be about the same price as the 16gb SSD drives.. and unlike the 16gb SSD drive.. youll only have 4gb per Iram..

I think the Iram is a cracking little bit of hardware if you have some spare memory. but buying memory just to use it - is a luxury rather than a massive benifit.

Either way

if you do get the second Iram setup - make sure you post some pics of it raided up

and some case pics

Cheers
ROfu

Well Splattered · 5 May 2007 at 11:40

Your post is one of those rare ones I see on these boards. I want to comment on everything!

I had read that on a few reviews but wanted to play with SPD settings on RAM. Little difference but so far i have found the tighter CAS a lil slower. Again early days yet for a full summary.

Seen this? linky
Read/Write speeds look awesome! Its some claim! I would look at paying upto £400 for a good sized and quick SSD. Only justified as they are slightly future proof and I would use on every PC upgrade.

I use none of the above, In fact one I-RAM is overkill. However as a keen gamer in many a class based FPS. I justified the purchase by wanting to be first in the server to have a choice of all classes and not having use another class if the one I wanted was full. DOD-Source is a good example with MGer and Sniper being restricted in most servers.

Purchased 2nd I-Ram and on my table in a box. Purely as I only have two 32Bit PCI slots and they are too close together to fit both I-Ram when populated. Have some samsung based RAM to slot in. Will take a photo if I remember later, but benchmarks are not going to happen until my new motherboard arrives. Looking at the DFI Dark P965 when it arrives, it has spacing for both I-Ram and enough RAID SATA's to fulfil my needs.

So far Company of heroes, but with the new patch, it hates copying over the game data! With the full 8 gb, I will have stalker, CODUO and COD2, all Steam games inc CS:Source and DOD:Source. never played battlefield 2142, but have the previous releases. Mainly class games

Im usually first in server now with RAID Raptors.

whoops

The SSD drives I looked at were all silly slow, albeit with quick I/O, but this only helps small files. Game files are much bigger and burst, sustained speed is a must - Well so I read!

Luxury all the way. Just wished I measured up the PCI slots before buying two. Have one spare now. Was going to sell it, but may hold on until a new motherboard arrives. Benchmarks will be the order of the day!

Gotta dash work calls, but I think SSD is the way for me to go next.

cavemanoc · 5 May 2007 at 18:14

Well Splattered said:
I use none of the above, In fact one I-RAM is overkill. However as a keen gamer in many a class based FPS. I justified the purchase by wanting to be first in the server to have a choice of all classes and not having use another class if the one I wanted was full. DOD-Source is a good example with MGer and Sniper being restricted in most servers.

Purchased 2nd I-Ram and on my table in a box. Purely as I only have two 32Bit PCI slots and they are too close together to fit both I-Ram when populated. Have some samsung based RAM to slot in. Will take a photo if I remember later, but benchmarks are not going to happen until my new motherboard arrives. Looking at the DFI Dark P965 when it arrives, it has spacing for both I-Ram and enough RAID SATA's to fulfil my needs.

I know it's a little late as you've already got 2 I-Ram's but just a thought:

You can get 2x2Gb Kits for <£390 now. If you use the Vista resume function instead of shutting down you could use the 4 Gig as a virtual Drive and run your game on that, now that would get you into the level fast :eek:

Stolen from wizardmaxx ^^ in the HDD benchmark thread Here

Cheaper and faster?

Well Splattered · 5 May 2007 at 20:08

cavemanoc said:
You can get 2x2Gb Kits for <£390 now. If you use the Vista resume function instead of shutting down you could use the 4 Gig as a virtual Drive and run your game on that, now that would get you into the level fast

Cheaper and faster?

V Quick and Im impressed. Leaving this thread purely for I-Ram goodness, but thats worth me looking into. Thanks for adding it to this thread

ROfu · 5 May 2007 at 22:28

cavemanoc -
2x2gb matched ram for under 390

not noticed them on Overclockers yet so guessing your talking elsewhere.. are these quick ram dimms? 800mhz+ or 667 - they ECC too ? or unregistered.

Well Splattered -
Did you have any issues with the ramsink of your corsiar ram getting them to fit on the I-Ram board, as i have mixed setup half being value (no ramsinks) and half quality ram i didnt have an issue.. although i noticed while putting the quality ram with sinks on, that they started to bend the slots outward a little.. with 4 of the same does it splay the slots a lot?

Cheers
ROfu

cavemanoc · 6 May 2007 at 11:06

ROfu said:
cavemanoc -
2x2gb matched ram for under 390 not noticed them on Overclockers yet so guessing your talking elsewhere.. are these quick ram dimms? 800mhz+ or 667 - they ECC too ? or unregistered.
ROfu

They are at OcUK - linky in my last post! (Click on the underlined Kits )- but I messed up the price completely! That's 2x (2x2Gb) for under £390 - or 2x2Gb for <£190 :eek:

That means that for <£390 you could have 2Gb of Ram and a 6Gb Ramdisk :eek:

Well Splattered · 7 May 2007 at 12:12

ROfu said:
Well Splattered -
Did you have any issues with the ramsink of your corsiar ram getting them to fit on the I-Ram board, as i have mixed setup half being value (no ramsinks) and half quality ram i didnt have an issue.. although i noticed while putting the quality ram with sinks on, that they started to bend the slots outward a little.. with 4 of the same does it splay the slots a lot?

Cheers
ROfu

From the bottom working up, the first two slots went in ok. The third was tight, but went in ok. The last (top slot) was quite easy. I did not notice any obvious bending. The RAM is touching, but I have a 120mm Amber blowing onto the PCI area. Will monitor for ill effects.

I bought a B Grade stick of crucial cl3 (PC3200u -30331-EO) which fails to be usable. Its based on UCCC chips in 128mx64 config. Its recognisable (size) by the IRAM in Admin tools>storage management. However the disk will not initialize. This stick works fine when taken out and placed into the motherboard.

It was paired up by with two Samsung modules also in 128mx64 config, but with the TCCC chips. These work fine without the crucial stick. Tried VDATA and TCD? modules (128mx64 config). These also worked fine.

Running the UCCC stick on the motherboard for 3gb!

Hope this experience helps someone!

That means that for <£390 you could have 2Gb of Ram and a 6Gb Ramdisk

Tempting, but does 32bit Vista recognise that much? Im sure XP will not!