Independent Schools

[TW]Fox said:
See I thought quality schools taught you how to paragraph, thats just painful to read :p
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Actually, you'd be surprised with the state of the education of the English language in this day and age ;). Even at Independent schools, there isn't enough emphasis on English language.
 
Heheh its true some independent schools feel like exam factories :D And it is much harder to obtain good results from a state school than it is at an independent school (which is why unis rightly value an A from a state more than an A from indep). I would suggest transfering your kid at the age of 13 which is when most start so that he can fully appreciate/utilise the facilities of the school & maximise his potential.

Its an unfortunate state of affairs that exams no longer differentiate between the excellent and the mediocre - which is why top unis are using special tests / requesting UMS (camb do, and some oxf colleges do in iview). Perhaps by the time your son is going through the system, it will have regressed to the 60's where exams were hard and only the best got A's :D

Oh and one of my mates, who i got to know very well, came from state school at 13 - he said there were a few big differences

people worked harder/were less disruptive/less afraid to actually be smart ;)
better facilities
way way more work (forced him to achieve more)
better resources in terms of uni and such (he kept in touch will all his mates)
 
In my experiance, just starting university, its pretty clear that 99% of people who went to private schools came out with better grades than other people, me included. They also seem to come out fairly jaded towards money and what not, but i think thats got a lot to do with growing up with more money than others.

If i had kids and had the choice to send them to a decent private school i would.
 
sniffy said:
Not worth the money, nor the person your child will likely turn into.

Just my opinion.
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A bit narrow minded? I go to a reasonably expensive independant school (penultimate year before uni) and people are anything but posh and bigheaded there. Everyone's very laid back and hardly loaded :confused:

Admittedly, the school is fairly old fashioned in its ways and tends to push students quite hard, but it generally turns out very well, and the old fashioned aspect of things certainly doesn't rub off on students :D
 
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Agree with the narrow minded comment. I went to state schools in the UK until the end of Y10 when I moved out here to France, where I'm at a private school doing the IB. Here there are a few people who are posh and arrogant, but theres plenty of people like me who aren't fantastically well off, and just your "normal bloke."

When I went to Oxford last year for interviews (got turned down even with all 7's predicted, damn them!) there were lots of people from private schools and I found it was the same situation - a few who were big headed but there were many I got on with. Including one good lad from Leeds, who shares my northern-ish accent so I didn't feel so daft in a sea of upper-class accents :p
 
WS_TailGunner said:
I went to Christ's Hospital School in Horsham (mixed boarding school)- really really good school. miss it a lot and im 26 now :)

The boarding side of things was a little daunting to begin with, but i ended up really liking it- made some very good friends and contacts.

from a financial point of view, its unique- fees are calculated according to your means- my mum was a single parent with no income- we paid zero fees...the whole thing is a charity designed to give all children an equal chance. all you have to do is pass the entrance exams...

the quality of the education on offer is excellent- most of the teachers when i was there held doctorates in thier subjects and the class sizes were a quarter the size of the classes in my sister's school

in my experience, independant schools offer more choice of subjects, teachers with a real passion for thier subjects, smaller class sizes and infinitely better facilities. my school had its own proper sports centre, working theatre (working as in it was used for commercial productions), scouts unit, cadets unit, 800 acres of sports pitches (for 900 pupils!), and it was all set in the countryside- it was all tree line avenues and grand buildings with great views...thinking back on it, it was amazing...

eep! nostalgic babbling! sorry bout that!
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On the other hand, the uniform looks like a cat threw up over you! - I went to Windlesham House for my prep school, and we had to play you lot at sport every so often.
 
Hangon.....er....surely the reverse of the points made are true? As in, all state school pupils are rough working class scumbags?

My group of friends from my secondary school made ~10 new friends between us at our state college in Bristol. And those who went on to £££ schools made so many new friends and overall met so many cool people.

There's two types of people and you have to look at a) which kind of person you are and b) which school is best.

In my case, for example, the local state school was fantastic and I wouldn't have gone anywhere else.

Yes, there are some people in posh skools who are totally spoilt to death and completely out of touch with the "real world" but what is the real world? From their point of view, people who go to state schools, eat Mc Donald's and go home to a council flat have no idea of the "real world."

The "real world" is actually in between the two and you find a mix of people in all parts of the spectrum. I personally find people from £££ schools much nicer (generally) than people from state schools, simply because I'm a bit of a posh git! :p
 
I've been to mixed and boys-only. I did much better academically at the mixed one.

The problem with public schools is that with wealth comes arrogance. Some of the kids I've met disgust me. I personally think that a state school will produce a much better adult than a public school. For starters, you get a better taste of reality, you're not in a "nice" "rich" "protected" bubble. So what if there's more bullying and "lower class scum bags" - it does a better job of preparing you in life, and you leave knowing you're equal and not better than everyone else.

This comes from the bloke who is currently at a very expensive public school.
 
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Speaking from the people i have met throughout my time at university, and this is all very much generally:

1) If you go to an independent school you are pretty much guaranteed good grades, mainly because of selectiveness but also discipline is stricter (screw up and your out) and classes are smaller. The evidence i have for this is that in my old school, nobody fails either their GCSE or A-Level and everybody bar a couple get top grades. Of the state school friends I have at Uni, they have all said much the same that they were the lucky few. They managed to get good grades and had a good time but most of their friends from school couldn’t care less about uni.

2) There is no generalisation about stuck up-ness from private school pupils. I have never, in my life, met a stuck up private school boy. What you soon come to realise is that everybody is in much the same situation. Some families are rich yes but most just earn an honest wage and want the best for their kids.

3) The general quality of a private school will always be much higher. Think about it, state schools have a limited budget and the room for expansion is limit. An independent school will have a flow of cash meaning your child will get a better experience. For instance, this could be the difference between a CRT or a TFT, a white board or a black board or a smart board, old books new books etc.
 
Dave said:
Agree with the narrow minded comment. I went to state schools in the UK until the end of Y10 when I moved out here to France, where I'm at a private school doing the IB. Here there are a few people who are posh and arrogant, but theres plenty of people like me who aren't fantastically well off, and just your "normal bloke."

When I went to Oxford last year for interviews (got turned down even with all 7's predicted, damn them!) there were lots of people from private schools and I found it was the same situation - a few who were big headed but there were many I got on with. Including one good lad from Leeds, who shares my northern-ish accent so I didn't feel so daft in a sea of upper-class accents :p
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Agreed. Most people who go to independant schools are just normal people, not up to their neck in cash. Quite a few of my friends get EMA because their families' incomes aren't exactly spectacular.

I think sniffy is thinking of public schools :)
(not to imply that all people there are like this, but it's probably more true than in private schools.)
 
My junior school had a natural progression into our local secondary state school which is where all my friends from junior school went onto. My parents did not want me going to the school which at the time I hated them for- breaking me up from all my friends - I didn't understand then.

I ended up going to another state school further away from home with a better catchment area but after the first year I was completely lost in the system because it was far too overcrowded and generally the teaching was appalling. 35 in a class was obscene.

After year 7 my parents moved me again to our local independent school and although at the time I was angry at being moved again I can't thank my parents enough for it. I was so much happier there and was moved from being in the bottom sets at the state school to the top sets in the independent school and achieving amazing results and I feel my full potential was brought out of me.

When I see what my old friends from junior school are up to now aka either had kids when they were 16/17,a criminal record or already reached their full potential working in the local MacDonald’s I still can't thank my parents enough. I know my friends were on exactly the same level as me when they left junior school but unfortunately the local state school lost them...

When/if I have kids there is no doubt in my mind to send them down the private/independent route.

Of course this is all my opinion :) not all state schools are bad im sure but my experience was that they are.......

I'm 20 now and taking my degree at Southampton University :)
 
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i don't know why there is so much prejudice against private school kids by your logic its all state school kids live on estates, eat @ mac's, have a million kids by the age of 14 etc etc...

this is a stupid stereotype!
 
I can only speak from my own, limited, experience. I'm currently doing my AS levels, and have always been in state education. Do I think that spending £7000 per annum on your childrens education is a good idea? It's not something I think I would do, but at the end of the day, it is your choice. You should consider that although children attending independent schools have higher grades on average, this does not mean your children will perform better. There is probably a very different work ethic, a larger volume of work, and in general a higher standard expected of all students.

In my education, teachers do not seem particularly intent on 'pushing' the students to achieve A(*) grades at GCSE, and especially doing my AS levels the focus seems more on getting pass grades than outstanding grades. Statistically less children will get great grades from a state school, but in some ways this is an advantage - it requires more work on the part of the individual students to get the grades they want. The atmosphere is relaxed in general (I have only seen one side of the system, but I have a good idea about the way different schools work), and gives plenty of room for the children to develop not just academically, but also in more personal/social ways.

True enough, there is a wide variety of people attending a state school, and some are much more interested in doing well than others. Some people are disruptive, and do not contribute to a working environment. However, there is certainly nothing stopping children at state schools from performing just as well as those in independent/private schools. It comes down to the attitude of the children themselves, and the higher standard of grades in independent schools probably owes a large amount to the fact that most students do have a strong work ethic due to the way they've been brought up by their parents. After all, they're willing to fork out seven grand a year to make sure they get their As :p

At the end of the day, it's a parenting decision and in that regard my experience is null :D But I would certainly not discount the values of a state school. I believe it will give the children a more balanced view in some ways of society, but it really is here nor there. Some will prefer state and some independent. I'd give both a chance and research them, as both have pros and cons.
 
for some good advice on the whole issue, there is an article by the times every year, and i believe there is something on top private schools on the tatler website; ill link to them maybe tommorow afternoon.
 
Well, I'm in the lower 6th at a public school, fees cost £8000/term, and most of the people here are acheiving very good grades. We had one person in a year of about 150 who got a C in Maths GCSE, and he's renowned for not being particularly bright - everyone else got Bs or above. Many, many people are getting silly numbers of A*s at GCSE. They had to raise the bar for winning an honourary scholarship to 8A*s and the rest As as so many people got 7. Even so, now 1/6th of my year are scholars. Before GCSEs there were 8 of us. Pupils are always pushed to do well. I'm considered lazy by most of my teachers, and I get about 50% of my homework in on time and if I dont I'll have it in my the lesson after when I'm meant to.
Class sizes are small. In the first year (year 9) there are about 20 pupils to a class and they get smaller as you get older. At the moment my maths set is the biggest set I'm in, and it's about 15 pupils. My physics set has 12, biology as about 12 and chemistry the same. Depends on the popularity of the subject... the other further maths set in my year had about 7 people in.
Theres a silly amount of EC stuff that people can do if they want to. Personally I sail, we're one of the top 5 schools in England at the moment for sailing (although that will drop after my year leaves), but there are lots of other sports that can be done.
I wouldn't go to state school for the world, it's just too nice a place here.
I'm not sure what you really want to know - I've dropped you an email to your trust address, mail me if you have any questions.
 
Tommy B said:
I've been to mixed and boys-only. I did much better academically at the mixed one.

The problem with public schools is that with wealth comes arrogance. Some of the kids I've met disgust me. I personally think that a state school will produce a much better adult than a public school. For starters, you get a better taste of reality, you're not in a "nice" "rich" "protected" bubble. So what if there's more bullying and "lower class scum bags" - it does a better job of preparing you in life, and you leave knowing you're equal and not better than everyone else.

This comes from the bloke who is currently at a very expensive public school.
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When you say you're at a very expensive public school, I do hope it's very expensive. What you've said about the "nice rich protected bubble" is certainly not true of most independent schools.

As someone said a few posts ago, a lot of my friends are on EMA, bursaries and scholarships because they can't afford the fees/parents have a low income. There's no bubble. Sure, there are some rich people, but it's not any large percentage, in fact, in my year group it may be as low as 2-5% who have parents with six figure incomes.

Really, all these generalisations and stereotypes come from this massive information failure. Just because independent schools aren't in the majority, just because they have a price tag on their education, does not mean they're in any way 'taboo'.
 
Gimpymoo said:
Both myself and my wife had a state education and neither of us have any problems admitting our education could have been better but both agree our time at school was fun and enjoyable but obviously would like better for our own children.

I admit that I was once very narrow minded regarding Independent schools and was one of the "Never did me any harm" brigade but since the recent birth of our first child, we have been discussing the merits of our children being taught in an independent school.

We do not live in the best of areas and although the state school is OK, I would have course like better for my child.

We are not millionaires but by choosing holidays more wisely and general thriftyness, an independent schooling would be a possibility. We are not talking about boarding schools, just independent schools.

Also, I read different sources saying that same sex schools often benefit the pupils, girls more so as they obviously mature at a different level to boys.

Any input appreciated from both sides of the camp.

Discuss.
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I went to a independant school and later on a state school.

The difference is like night and day, it really is.

This is my old independant school:
http://www.kirkstonehouse.ik.org/

This is my old state school:
http://www.robertmanning.org.uk/

Ignore the fact that RM has a better website, it was a complete dump 15 years ago, and its a complete dump now.
 
heheh damn economists and their crazzzy terminology :P

Wonder what school you goto Tommy_B!

I think the rich kid stereotype is more prevalent in country boarding schools which are not that selective at all. At all the top schools, which have good results and are quite selective, this is not an issue.

On whether i would have my kid goto the same school as i did? Definately.
Did I always like it? No
Do I regret not taking full advantage? Yes
Have I met some amazing people? Yes

And all in all, i look back on it with fond memories.
 
N9ne said:
When you say you're at a very expensive public school, I do hope it's very expensive. What you've said about the "nice rich protected bubble" is certainly not true of most independent schools.

As someone said a few posts ago, a lot of my friends are on EMA, bursaries and scholarships because they can't afford the fees/parents have a low income. There's no bubble. Sure, there are some rich people, but it's not any large percentage, in fact, in my year group it may be as low as 2-5% who have parents with six figure incomes.

Really, all these generalisations and stereotypes come from this massive information failure. Just because independent schools aren't in the majority, just because they have a price tag on their education, does not mean they're in any way 'taboo'.
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Yes it is. It's mostly boarding, and there are a lot of VERY rich people there, I saw someone get dropped off in a DB9 the other day. I'm fully aware it isn't the typical public school. There are about 5 people in my year on EMA afaik.

To be honest, most of the arrogrance is a result of a sort of multiplier effect. A lot of "nice" people leave as complete *********, but that isn't true about everyone.
 
Tommy B said:
Yes it is. It's mostly boarding, and there are a lot of VERY rich people there, I saw someone get dropped off in a DB9 the other day. I'm fully aware it isn't the typical public school. There are about 5 people in my year on EMA afaik.

To be honest, most of the arrogrance is a result of a sort of multiplier effect. A lot of "nice" people leave as complete *********, but that isn't true about everyone.
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All I'm trying to say is what you witness at your school is definitely not representative.

Given that there are many very rich people at your school, perhaps your observations of their particular attitude are evidence that the stereotype is generally concentrated at the top public schools, and this is what the media choose to show, and what people choose to see. Nothing personal, but those stereotypes do seem more prevalent at expensive public/boarding schools. Mind telling me who's charging you £24,000 per year?
 
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