Independent Schools

chimaera · 5 May 2006 at 21:06

I find that the smaller class sizes at an independent school are not only a benefit from an education perspective. The state school i was at till 13 had nearly 250 pupils per year, a figure which i believe has risen considerably since then. Within that many people its so easy to get psychologically lost unless you're loud enough to make people and teachers take note of you. Personally i was quiet as a mouse, always did my work on time, got good grades, and suffered mercilessly as a result, hence my parents moving me to a private school.

It was a mixed independent with 100 people in the entire school, roughly 13 per year. I swear it was the best thing that could have happened to me, being able to get to know every single pupil in the entire school, of course some were morons but thats nothing new. Being in that kind of situation means you have to get along with your classmates, as you know you have to be with these 12 people every working day for the next 3 years.

Just to give them the credit they deserve...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/04/school_tables/secondary_schools/html/308_6062.stm

Plus it also helped that the school was quite ethnically diverse, hey it even ended up with a turkish girl becomming best friends with a greek cypriot, if thats not divine intervention then nothing is

Inquisitor · 5 May 2006 at 21:11

N9ne said:
When you say you're at a very expensive public school, I do hope it's very expensive. What you've said about the "nice rich protected bubble" is certainly not true of most independent schools.

As someone said a few posts ago, a lot of my friends are on EMA, bursaries and scholarships because they can't afford the fees/parents have a low income. There's no bubble. Sure, there are some rich people, but it's not any large percentage, in fact, in my year group it may be as low as 2-5% who have parents with six figure incomes.

Really, all these generalisations and stereotypes come from this massive information failure. Just because independent schools aren't in the majority, just because they have a price tag on their education, does not mean they're in any way 'taboo'.

He's talking about public schools, not normal independant schools.

georges · 5 May 2006 at 21:14

I went to independant school..

When I got into state school (albeit it's a fairly posh one, royal grammar school so you need to get top 100/5000 to get in) I realised how sheltered from society you get.

My parents aren't at all rich, so we're not posh or anything..

The smaller classes aren't necessarily good..

14 in my class, 4 boys including me and I hated 2 of them.. on friend who was a guy :/

I'm sure they give a better education, but I reckon they're much less fun.

It's not as if clever people aren't clever in state schools. Few people came from independant schools at my current school, but I don't think that anyone bar around 5 are getting more than 2B's out of 11 gcse's so obviously state schooling can't be that bad

I reckon make sure you give a surprise appearance at a prospective school so you can see what it's like when they haven't had time to control classes and tart the place up. That way you'll see what the school is really like.

Beansprout · 5 May 2006 at 21:19

georges said:
I'm sure they give a better education, but I reckon they're much less fun.

Nah, the people I know from £££ schools are much more fun than state schools.

But then, I prefer doing different stuff to getting drunk down the pub

It's just luck of the draw really as to whether you get on with the people you're with or not, regardless of where they're from.

chimaera · 5 May 2006 at 21:22

Gimpymoo said:
Well, thank you all very much for the replies so far, especially Chimaera and N9ne, very usefull indeed.

N9ne, you mention about Indenpendent Junior schooling not being as beneficial as senior schooling. This is a thought I have had myself. My only concern was that our child would make friends at their State Junior school and then have to leave the majority of them when going to an Independent Senior school.

Has anyone here gone from a state Junior to an independent senior? How was the transition? As been mentioned, I would have thought that the social environment at an independent would be less intimidating for a newcomer?

Sorry i should have read that before posting again, thought i'd give you my opinion...again

I left friends behind, you don't forget but its not the end of the world, i don't even keep in contact with my a-level friends anymore and that was 7 years ago. I joined at age 13 and was so out of place it was painful, yet 6 months later i was happy as anything, kids are bendy like that!

Transition is tough i'll admit that, and they probably will feel very out of place for a while, but at age 11 i don't think its half as bad as doing it later, there will be plenty of other new kids at that age. Hopefully the school will help but don't take it for granted, when i changed school for a-levels my teachers referred to me as 'the new boy' for 2 years.

Personally i think state to independent at age 11 is the best way to do it, but then again i went to a nice small CofE primary, not these huge hulking great mega primaries that seem to be popping up all over my borough. Its probably also worth mentioning a pitfall to that though, i applied for an independent at age 11 and failed the entrance exams

so tread carefully, my council screwed me over and tried to dump me in the nastiest school in barnet that would have been 3 bus rides away, we had to move to get me into my local state school.

Chronos-X · 5 May 2006 at 21:48

I think if you're naturally pre-disposed to be intelligent and have a good head on your shoulders, the school you go to won't make much difference.

N9ne · 5 May 2006 at 21:51

georges said:
I went to independant school..

When I got into state school (albeit it's a fairly posh one, royal grammar school so you need to get top 100/5000 to get in) I realised how sheltered from society you get.

My parents aren't at all rich, so we're not posh or anything..

The smaller classes aren't necessarily good..

14 in my class, 4 boys including me and I hated 2 of them.. on friend who was a guy :/

I'm sure they give a better education, but I reckon they're much less fun.

It's not as if clever people aren't clever in state schools. Few people came from independant schools at my current school, but I don't think that anyone bar around 5 are getting more than 2B's out of 11 gcse's so obviously state schooling can't be that bad

I reckon make sure you give a surprise appearance at a prospective school so you can see what it's like when they haven't had time to control classes and tart the place up. That way you'll see what the school is really like.

You can't reckon independent schools are less fun based on your tiny experience in a few classes in one school...maybe you just weren't compatible with those particular people. This can happen anywhere. If you had a class size of 30-40, perhaps you'd have other difficulties, such as making yourself heard, etc. I don't think it's a valid argument against independent schools.

Vertigo · 5 May 2006 at 22:53

Ok call me a snob but I do firmly believe that, on average, independent schoold provide a better education than state ones.

I went to an independent from the ages of 13 through to A-levels (Solihull School - two years ahead of a certain Richard Hammond

) and it was excellent. At the time I was there it was boys only to 16 with girls admitted in the sixth form for A-levels. With regards to single or mixed sex schooling, I can see the benefits of single sex but in retrospect, suddenly being mixed up with girls when you're trying to concentrate on A-levels was rather entertaining

Mattus · 5 May 2006 at 23:05

For those who believe that going to an expensive school ensures good grades, I have two words: Prince Harry.

Gimpymoo · 5 May 2006 at 23:26

Thanks you all very much for your feedback, this is proving to be a very helpfull and informative thread from a personal point of view.

I do personally feel as though an Independent schooling would be best for our children.

I guess the next topic for discussion is a mixed or same sex school?

Again, I freely admit to being the one who would mock single sex schools in my youth but now see them in a different light and see the advantages of them. Although I have to question what the negatives are, if any.

Vertigo1 said:
With regards to single or mixed sex schooling, I can see the benefits of single sex but in retrospect, suddenly being mixed up with girls when you're trying to concentrate on A-levels was rather entertaining

FUN FUN FUN

If you dont mind me asking, how did you find it in a single sex school? What were the positives and negatives?

Mattus said:
For those who believe that going to an expensive school ensures good grades, I have two words: Prince Harry.

Myself personally, I am leaning more towards an independent education not just for the grades but for the total package. I feel that socially and many other ways, my child would benefit. NOT TO PICK ON A STEREOTYPE, how many teenagers can only enjoy themselves with a bottle of white lightning on the local park? I would rather my childs eyes were opened to many other forms of entertainment which would challenge them both physically and mentally.

chimaera said:
My one criticism of independent schools however is that most have big problems with drugs and alcohol, much more so than state schools, simply because these little rich kids have the means to get hold of them in plentiful quantities, it's something very serious that most independent schools gloss over quite successfully.

Would anyone agree/disagree with this as that is quiet a concern. I could imagine it being a bigger problem at boarding schools. I will say that my state school had a similar problem though.

Locrian · 5 May 2006 at 23:39

From my own experience, mixed is definitely the way to go. Would you rather your child grew up in a world revolved around gender segregation or one where both sexes are equals?

If often find people arguing for the case of single sex saying that there are less distractions. Unless your an inebriated monkey who cant do anything but stare at breasts all day every day this certainly isnt a problem in mixed schools.

Vertigo · 5 May 2006 at 23:40

Gimpymoo said:
If you dont mind me asking, how did you find it in a single sex school? What were the positives and negatives?

The fairly obvious ones tbh. On the plus side it's less of a distraction having people of the opposite sex around all the time but on the downside it can hinder your social development a bit, though this obviously depends on the social circles the kids keep when not in school.

It's a bit of a balance really. I think a single sex environment can help their education by reducing distractions during school hours but potentially at the risk of hindering their social life to some degree.

Lithium · 5 May 2006 at 23:40

therandom said:
If the kid wants to do well she will do irrelevant of the type of school...

Nah mate. The schools around East London where i live are pretty much full wasters. They are crammed to the brim and the kids are clearly not reaching their full potential.

A kid full of drive may do just as well in a independant as a state school. But what about those kids that dont? I went to a state primary school and did well enough to get into a private school. The difference was night and day.

If you can afford to send your kids to a better school - do it. I was lucky to go to the same school as my dad and his brother. I didnt get much in terms of grades but i got a lot more out of it. I learned a huge ammount about life and i appreciate it a lot now. I will definatly send my kids to private if i can afford it.

Lithium · 5 May 2006 at 23:42

As for single or mixed sex.

Well my school was a boys school AND a girls school. We had lessons seperate but during break time we were free to socialise together. which was a good mix of the two. I dont think i could handle an ALL boys school.

georges · 5 May 2006 at 23:51

Gimpymoo said:
If you dont mind me asking, how did you find it in a single sex school? What were the positives and negatives?

My current school is Single sex(www.crgs.co.uk)

I enjoy it more than I thought I would. It doesn't make you gay etc as many people believe, but there are no fights as there is no competition and pretty much _everyone_ gets along. There's no real hatred at all. It's a nice environment to work in.

Although, my school may be different in that there is an all girls school down the road so we're not isolated

Also, guys act more like themselves as they don't need to impress anyone, or feel like they need to. Which regardless of what people say, it's going to happen.

Negatives:
No girls, which can affect some people's social skills as they may just not be familliar with the opposite sex. Not many people like that except the Uber-geeks to be honest though.

That is pretty much the only negative there is.

When I joined I was surprised at how I didn't mind the lack of girls. Although I reckon I'd hate it if there wasn't the girls grammar down the road.

Beansprout · 6 May 2006 at 00:07

Gimpymoo said:
NOT TO PICK ON A STEREOTYPE, how many teenagers can only enjoy themselves with a bottle of white lightning on the local park? I would rather my childs eyes were opened to many other forms of entertainment which would challenge them both physically and mentally.

Brilliant, and so so true

Generally in state schools you do find groups of people like the ones you seek, but they're a lot smaller than in private schools.

In a state school, if you can afford a private education, you will stand out at the rougher schools (my secondary school in Bath was very middle-class and civilised and honestly there weren't any distinctions between kids - there were enough of each 'type' of person for use to form groups of friends, only the true weirdors were loners), and also at 16+ because at that level quite a few people move their kids to private schools for the best chances at their A-levels (that's what happened with my friends, anyway, but that could be because there weren't any decent state colleges)

chimaera · 6 May 2006 at 01:54

Gimpymoo said:
Would anyone agree/disagree with this as that is quiet a concern. I could imagine it being a bigger problem at boarding schools. I will say that my state school had a similar problem though.

I guess you'll get it anywhere really, and again it depends on the people, i've known old friends who went to state college and got into drugs in a bad way, but they hung around with the worst kind of people. However i'll never forget meeting one particular old friend who went to the state college up the road from my school, and being introduced to his dealer *may i stress that i have never even smoked a cig nevermind anything worse*....suprise suprise his dealer was one of the kids in my year, daddy gave him enough allowance to be able to buy ectasy and cannabis in bulk.

Apologies if i worried you a bit with that statement but that is how i've seen it throughout my life. But then i'm a firm believer in that if your child has a good head on their shoulders then they'll say no when they're inevitably introduced to it.

Gimpymoo · 6 May 2006 at 02:35

chimaera said:
Apologies if i worried you a bit with that statement but that is how i've seen it throughout my life.

Did not worry me at all. It actually made me giggle as I too thought that the dealer was just plain stupid. He wasnt doing it out of the need for money, he was doing it because he was a twit, well, thats how I see it. And how much money was he being given by his folks - Obviously enough to buy Cannabis and E's at wholesale. Makes the parents stupid if you ask me.. were they not keeping an eye on where his money went?

Money CANNOT buy Common Sense.

chimaera said:
But then i'm a firm believer in that if your child has a good head on their shoulders then they'll say no when they're inevitably introduced to it.

Couldn't agree more.

N9ne · 6 May 2006 at 11:45

On the drugs and alcohol issue, it doesn't depend on the school. It depends on the person. State schoolers also have means of obtaining them.

big_white_dog84 · 6 May 2006 at 12:27

I think you would be best moving to the catchment area of a decent state school. I would not want my kids growing into the kind of people that private schools produce.