Indian Grand Prix 2011, Buddh International Circuit - Race 17/19

I think he just took his eye off the ball. His eye was on Vettel. When in reality it's obvious now that Vettel was not catchable, so he should have kept his eye on his team mate. But he only realised this when it was too late.

There's definitely some depression in him at the moment. But nothing a good car next year can't easily solve. If it's another car off the pace from the get go again next year, he could quite literally self destruct far worse than we've seen this season.
 
Not sure if serious.

Semi serious. He's obviously not a crackhead or heroin junky but it could be prescription drugs... he could be bi-polar or something.

Who know?

All I was saying was that I doubt the breakup with Nicole or with his dad are the sole reasons for his poor season this year and are more than likely symptoms of an underlying problem rather than the cause.
 
There's definitely some depression in him at the moment. But nothing a good car next year can't easily solve. If it's another car off the pace from the get go again next year, he could quite literally self destruct far worse than we've seen this season.

It's really weird. He started 2009 with a poor car, and the events of the Australian GP had the potential to send him into a tailspin. But he knuckled down and turned the car into a race winner by the end of the year. The last two years, he's had a car that's okay, capable of winning races, he was even in the title hunt for most of last season....and yet he's looked pretty bloody awful for a while now. His demeanour is all sorts of wrong, he's hit damned near everything except the safety car so far, and in fifteen race finishes he's come in 4th or lower ten times. Hardly the mark of a driver who has always been thought of as someone who would be one of the greats.

38 points behind his team-mate with two races to go....looking distinctly unlikely that he'll end the year ahead of JB unless unreliability strikes the number 4 car. So the question is - if things stay as they are to the end of this season, do I return the favour to sunama, who went all Spanish Inquisition on me when I dared to suggest that Button could beat Hamilton in the title race? I mean, I was only a year out ;)
 
I thought Button would edge it this year....if he didn't have those 2 dnf's he'd probably be uncatcheable now.....as it is, I'm 99% certain he'll bring the car home meaning he'll be Hammy. It will make or break Lewis though, he's got this reputation for not losing to his team mate, something is he very proud of, and also Jenson seems to be better liked in the team to boot!
 
There's definitely some depression in him at the moment. But nothing a good car next year can't easily solve.

Actually, I'd say the complete opposite. If this is an actual depression he's hitting now, then purely winning races might not be enough to get him out of the rut. As has been speculated here, it seems like it's off-track issues that have hit him the most, and success won't make those go away.

If anything, I think the break between seasons might help him, depending on what happens in it. I just hope he sorts his head out, for his sake as much as anything else.
 
Yeah, but come on - you don't have to be sports management to know that you shouldn't let someone who's not in a particularly happy place get bashed around by Fleet Street....

its probably one of those companies that advises its clients to go on celebrity big brother ;)

any press is good press! even if your getting slated for your views atleast your in the public eye...
all that rubbish he needs a company that know how to put sports personalities in a good light and the right frame of mind
 
look what was in the paper today :p

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Hardly the mark of a driver who has always been thought of as someone who would be one of the greats.

I'm very disappointed with Hamilton. He was the big British hope and I actually felt that he was the one driver who could take over from Mansell, in that we had a driver who could take the fight to any top driver which F1 had to offer. Vettel is everything that I thought Hamilton would be...alas, the guy got involved with the rapper/entertainment idols and its possible that this has effected him. Meanwhile, Button has become totally focused and I'm liking what I am seeing. I hate playboys, but I love it when a playboy gets renewed focus (Andre Agassi was the best example of this, when he chopped off his hair and returned after a long lay off, to reach the top of the world rankings (beating Sampras in the process).


38 points behind his team-mate with two races to go....looking distinctly unlikely that he'll end the year ahead of JB unless unreliability strikes the number 4 car.

I can't see how he can close in on Button. At this rate, Button will continue to open up a bigger gap over the next 2 races. The crucial thing for Hamilton is to avoid collisions. The best this McLaren can do is have a "big brother" type of radio man in his ear, who will advise him on when to put the hammer down and when to follow a driver. Everytime Hamilton is following Massa, it almost seems inevitable that there is going to be a crash. I think they have a 100% record on collisions, when following eachother (somebody verify this please).


So the question is - if things stay as they are to the end of this season, do I return the favour to sunama, who went all Spanish Inquisition on me when I dared to suggest that Button could beat Hamilton in the title race? I mean, I was only a year out ;)

You can't give me any jip on the Button finishing ahead of Hamilton last year...because you were wrong. :p

However, you can give me some jip based on the fact that I did say that Hamilton, would finish ahead of Button this year. ;)

The truth is that Button (and I've never seen this before), at a late age, is actually improving. He is getting progressively faster and is becoming more machine like, with ever race.

If I were creating a new team, Button and Alonso would be my 2 drivers. (Vettel and Hamilton will end up causing problems if they get beat...so best to keep those 2 out).

Oh and I shall take a look at Hamilton's history later tonight to find out when the last time he got beaten by his team-mate. I suspect it has been a very long time and that Button has basically mentally dismantled him. IF this is the case, then Hamilton really cannot continue driving with Button as his team-mate. Hamilton, needs to have the entire team based around him (as does Vettel), otherwise, he doesn't seem to perform at his optimum.
 
IS LH's race pace that untouchable though?

Unquestionably (like Vettel in some respects) he can knock out a quali lap probably better than the car deserves - I have no arguement about this at all

Race pace though Im not so sure - again on individual races he might be brilliant, but over a full season (and admittedly it will be interesting if this shows up next season or not) I think its questionable

Even before the coming together with Massa on Sunday, there were laps when he was right on the pace - but I would say (at a guess going from the live commentary rather than any analysis) half of the 24 laps pre-coming together LH seemed off the pace considerably

While he was sitting behind Massa it appeared that he was just hanging onto the back of the Ferrari rather than actually pushing and harrying FM like he would normally. Now maybe he is learning not to stress the tyres too much and this is why it appeared this way (Lewis actually learning from previous mistakes, would be a HUGE improvement) - but he wasnt doing fastest lap after fastest lap in sequences like JB was doing at the same stage (or close to it - wasnt he 1s down or something /lap)

Only by about lap 20 did he start getting as fast as the leaders and harrying FM ahead of him.

(Obviously unfair to compare after that, as there could have been non-visible damage to his car )

Even in other races there seem to be phases where he is as fast as Vettel / JB / Alonso but other times when he is relatively slow (even allowing for any difference in tyre compound)


From a mental point of view - just like footballers - doing the day job on the track (or football field) should be where he forgets everythign else and just does what he does best and blows the field away, if he can only do it when he is totally relaxed and happy......he may not have as good a career as his natural talent should allow

IF this is the case, then Hamilton really cannot continue driving with Button as his team-mate. Hamilton, needs to have the entire team based around him (as does Vettel), otherwise, he doesn't seem to perform at his optimum.

The big question is next season, and how next seasons car is developed in accordance with each drivers wishes (there wont be anything massive for one or other driver, being McLaren - but there could be little things) and of course with LH being in the mood he was in in the last few months, could itself have an affect on the initial designs for 2012. (Not to mention JB's reported £50m deal for THREE years - which is significantly better than what was discussed here, where as LH still has to sign post 2012)

Be very interesting to see what kind of effect on LH takes place IF JB can dismantle him again next season as definitively.
 
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Oh and I shall take a look at Hamilton's history later tonight to find out when the last time he got beaten by his team-mate. I suspect it has been a very long time and that Button has basically mentally dismantled him. IF this is the case, then Hamilton really cannot continue driving with Button as his team-mate. Hamilton, needs to have the entire team based around him (as does Vettel), otherwise, he doesn't seem to perform at his optimum.

Off the top of my head, I seem to remember reading that Hamilton has never been beaten by his team mate, all the way up through the feeder formulae.
 
The other thing to note is that Honda / Brawn and McLaren all seem to apreciate how JB develops each year's car from one season to the next (was mentioned by Honda before Brawn came on board, Brawn has said similar things and it sounds like McLaren are really getting to like him a great deal too - so this also (MIGHT) be why there is a little disparity between Lewis being able to push McLaren into developing a race winning car through the 2009 season compared to now (and dont forget of course even that is stightly deceptive in the fact that Brawn didnt have ANY development for the last 4 or 5 months of the season, of course Red bull / Ferrari were still pushing but the double Championship winning team were comparatively nowhere.......just think what that would have done to this year's McLaren / Ferrari if RB had stopped developing in July or when ever....:D)
 
Right. I've dug up some stats on Hamilton vs his team mates.
These stats basically go back to when he was a young teenager.

2011 - Hamilton is beaten (Button)
2010 - Hamilton beats team-mate (Button)
2009 - Hamilton beats team-mate (Heikki)
2008 - Hamilton beats team-mate (wins F1 title)
2007 - Hamilton ties (Alonso)
2006 - Hamilton beats team-mate (wins GP2 title)
2005 - Hamilton beats team-mate (wins Formula 3 Euro Series title)
2004 - Hamilton beats team-mate (Charles Zwolsman)
2003 - Hamilton beats team-mate (wins Formula Renault 2.0 UK title)

I've not been able to dig the results which pre-date 2003.

As you can see from the above, the guy appears to have never been beaten by his team-mate.

Based on the above, my suspicion is that the real reason he is depressed is that he is being beaten by his team-mate. It would make more sense that he is attempting to come to terms with being beaten by another driver in identical machinery and is struggling with resolving this.

Now, this is not uncommon. If all your professional life, you have been told that you are the best and that nobody in an identical car can beat you...when you do get beat, you may reach a "does not compute" moment - which could result in a mental problem (a computer would crash, at this point or throw an error). Of course, this unbeatable attitude will have been re-enforced when he matched the Alonso's points total in 2007, in his rookie season (something that I believe is unprecedented in F1, ie. rookie matches or beats the reigning World champ).

My belief is that it is Button who is causing him the problem.

What do you guys think?
 
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I can't find a teamate who has beaten Hamilton whilst digging around...and I totally believe Hammy is throwing the toys out of the pram because Button is beating him. The points situation is almost certain to mean he won't overhaul Button, and is something I've been saying for months...
 
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i think being behind his team mate is the main problem and he just wants to get this season over with and make a fresh start next year.


it is strange how he can race wheel to wheel with everyone else apart from massa, hes had great racing with jenson a few times and with webber not so long ago. its just with massa it ends in contact every time. is it massa or is it hamilton.


im not too fussed over who gets 2nd in the WDC as 2nd gets you nothing. vettel is champ, no one remembers 2nd.
 
im not too fussed over who gets 2nd in the WDC as 2nd gets you nothing. vettel is champ, no one remembers 2nd.

Ricky Bobby: Wait, Dad. Don't you remember the time you told me "If you ain't first, you're last"?
Reese Bobby: Huh? What are you talking about, Son?
Ricky Bobby: That day at school.
Reese Bobby: Oh hell, Son, I was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth... hell you can even be fifth.
Ricky Bobby: What? I've lived my whole life by that!
 
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