Indian Grand Prix 2011, Buddh International Circuit - Race 17/19

FrankJH · 31 Oct 2011 at 23:18

sunama said:
Blimey, this is a coincidence.

Apparently, Whitmarsh is also thinking that Button may be the root course of Hamilton's problems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15514061.stm

to be fair I think thats from the interview on Sunday after the race, where I personally think the BBC article is putting words into Whittmarsh's mouth (or the intention of his words, rather than what can be read into them)

I dont know what anyone else thought/thinks - but to me its a little arse about face (Whitmarsh imo implied on sunday that he thought the points situation wasnt helping LH's mental issues - which isnt worth any media time at all - whilest also praising JB for getting 2nd in the race and possibly 2nd in the WDC. What the BBC are implying he said is that JB performing so well is actually causing Lewis's mental issues, which I dont actually think Whittmarsh said)

Just my take on it mind you

Jono8 said:
I want them to be driving as fast as they can every lap. This is F1 not a le mans endurance race.

I was thinking about this today - and while I know safety was a primary concern when changing to no pit stop refueling, this also made me stop liking F1 as much as I used to (Verstappen fire was horrendous to watch, just as much as the gigantic multi car pile up at the beginning of Spa one year) but F1 IS meant to be the pinaccle of motor sport and Im not sure it is really

The multi tyre races makes it a different challange (monitoring tyre usage etc) but you are correct it should be about ultimate speed for x amount of laps

The_Abyss · 31 Oct 2011 at 23:20

FrankJH said:
to be fair I think thats from the interview on Sunday after the race, where I personally think the BBC article is putting words into Whittmarsh's mouth (or the intention of his words, rather than what can be read into them)

I dont know what anyone else thought/thinks - but to me its a little arse about face (Whitmarsh imo implied on sunday that he thought the points situation wasnt helping LH's mental issues - which isnt worth any media time at all - whilest also praising JB for getting 2nd in the race and possibly 2nd in the WDC. What the BBC are implying he said is that JB performing so well is actually causing Lewis's mental issues, which I dont actually think Whittmarsh said)

Just my take on it mind you

Like many quotes it is different when written as opposed to being spoken. Watch the interview and you can see the Whitmarsh is trying to comment positively to benefit both his drivers.

mattyg · 31 Oct 2011 at 23:22

The_Abyss said:
Like many quotes it is different when written as opposed to being spoken. Watch the interview and you can see the Whitmarsh is trying to comment positively to benefit both his drivers.

Little jonny helped his Uncle Jack, Off a horse

Little Jonny helped his uncle, Jack off a horse

ZG002 · 31 Oct 2011 at 23:22

Yep, Media twist on his post race interview. Whitmarsh is a cleaver man and wouldn't dare say something like that as it's just going to cause friction in the team which I'm guessing at the moment is the one thing he is trying to keep a firm lid on.

mattyg · 31 Oct 2011 at 23:24

ZG002 said:
Yep, Media twist on his post race interview. Whitmarsh is a cleaver man and wouldn't dare say something like that as it's just going to cause friction in the team which I'm guessing at the moment is the one thing he is trying to keep a firm lid on.

Although he did "almost" say we didnt expect JB to do as well as his is

ZG002 · 31 Oct 2011 at 23:27

Almost lol, They (Jake and EJ) put them all (Whitmarsh, Horner, Domenicali) under a bit pressure post race with their questions. It's one thing thinking it but a different one not letting that slip to the media

FrankJH · 31 Oct 2011 at 23:33

The_Abyss said:
Like many quotes it is different when written as opposed to being spoken. Watch the interview and you can see the Whitmarsh is trying to comment positively to benefit both his drivers.

Exactly - but the text around the BBC article is trying to imply ottherwise also, which wasnt intended in the slightest - at the very least exaggerate heavily what was actually said /implied

(there is NO WAY in the world the boss of McLaren would disrespect one of his drivers so openly while still hoping for the same driver to still be in the team for a number of years to come)

mattyg said:
Although he did "almost" say we didnt expect JB to do as well as his is

Or this could just have easily meant - the car let the drivers down in the WDC, which is just a statement of fact......

JRS · 1 Nov 2011 at 09:20

Mark Hughes talking a great deal of sense about the Massa-Hamilton clash on Sunday. Probably not going to be a popular viewpoint here, given the prevailing 'LOL MASSA SUCKS LOL' attitude....

In the days before stewards could impose stop-go or drive-through penalties, a driver in Hamilton's position would have been perfectly entitled to have tried that move.

But he would then have no cause for complaint if Massa had effectively said: "No, you're not going to intimidate me out of the way with a half-move, one you haven't made stick by getting fully alongside. I'm going to turn in and you'd better get out the way. I'd rather have the accident than have you bully me out of the way in a move you haven't made work."

Under those terms, it would be OK for Hamilton to try it on, OK for Massa to refuse and the resultant accident would be just a racing incident, just what happens sometimes in the game.

Hamilton admitted afterwards that, as he realised Massa was not surrendering the turn, he tried to get out of the move. But it was too late.

It was also probably too late to have made it work by staying committed. They would just have had a slightly different accident had he done that.

So this was not so much a judgement error by Hamilton, more a misinterpretation of Massa's move - the same misinterpretation the stewards may have made. There is, therefore, every reason to believe that Hamilton's focus has returned.

At any rate, I hope he's right when he says that Hamilton is now on the mend. I'll be glad to see the back of this 2011-vintage Lewis Hamilton, hopefully 2012's Hamilton is more like he was in the latter half of 2009.

dannyjo22 · 1 Nov 2011 at 09:33

Yes I see it as not different to this move which was just a racing incident...

At one point Hamilton was well alongside but Massa braked later or Hamilton earlier. I think Hamilton had nowhere to go and Massa was incredibly niave turning in and leaving him nowhere to go.

The gig is up for Massa and I guess he's getting pretty desperate right now. Not only can I not see him keeping his drive for much longer I can't see many be interested in taking him either. Maybe Sauber.

NathanE · 1 Nov 2011 at 09:37

I think Massa should have turned-in slower and left a larger margin. The way he did it, it was just one almost immediate jerk to the left which gave Hamilton absolutely no chance to react.

You can see (and hear) that Hamilton was trying to pull out of the move because he lifts off the gas. But the rate at which Massa pulled left was just too fast.

Massa knew there was an 80% probability that Hamilton was in his blind spot and he left no space. He just doesn't seem to respect other drivers, especially Hamilton.

deuse · 1 Nov 2011 at 10:45

I just hope that next season is not so boring. 2007-2010 was great.

Lopéz · 1 Nov 2011 at 10:52

JRS said:
Mark Hughes talking a great deal of sense about the Massa-Hamilton clash on Sunday. Probably not going to be a popular viewpoint here, given the prevailing 'LOL MASSA SUCKS LOL' attitude....

At any rate, I hope he's right when he says that Hamilton is now on the mend. I'll be glad to see the back of this 2011-vintage Lewis Hamilton, hopefully 2012's Hamilton is more like he was in the latter half of 2009.

Nice article, and on the whole I agree.

I'd prefer a return to the times of "racing incidents". You go for a gap that isn't really there? Fine, but don't act all surprised when I slam the door in your face - just like the Mansell/Senna incident posted above.

As for tyres, fuel, and the never-ending debate - the answer is clear. Bin the ridiculous "both compounds" rule. Make a super soft and a super hard, make one capable of lasting the whole race at a more gentle pace and the other fall apart at around third distance if pushed hard but have enough of a time benefit to make it worth the gamble.

That's what we used to have, and it worked until pit lane speed limits came along. Then it got a lot harder to stagger the compounds because suddenly a pit stop chewed far too much into your racing time.

Mr Jack · 1 Nov 2011 at 10:55

deuse said:
I just hope that next season is not so boring. 2007-2010 was great.

I think this has been a much better season that the last few. Yes, the Championship contest itself has been dull, but we've had - for the most part - much better races. Even this one, which wasn't a great one by any measure, doesn't match up to the snore fests of recent years.

deuse · 1 Nov 2011 at 11:06

Mr Jack said:
I think this has been a much better season that the last few. Yes, the Championship contest itself has been dull, but we've had - for the most part - much better races. Even this one, which wasn't a great one by any measure, doesn't match up to the snore fests of recent years.

We have had false racing not real racing. That's why now DC\MB say "that was a REAL overtake"

Bring back brigestone and fill the cars to the brim..turn the engine up and race.

Guerrilla · 1 Nov 2011 at 11:10

To be honest I can see it going more the other way if anything, where even more rules and regulations will be brought in to try to "encourage overtaking"

Mr Jack · 1 Nov 2011 at 11:14

deuse said:
We have had false racing not real racing. That's why now DC\MB say "that was a REAL overtake"

I'd like to see DRS dropped, that is true, and on a few tracks it's just been silly. However much of the interest has come from the aero changes and the much, much better Pirelli tyre compounds. We've seen lots of real racing.

Bring back brigestone and fill the cars to the brim..turn the engine up and race.

Bridgestone tyres were awful for F1. Pirelli are a vast improvement.

Duke · 1 Nov 2011 at 11:32

Bring back all the ways of making overtaking impossible? Great.

Surprised no-one has mentioned V12s again yet.

deuse · 1 Nov 2011 at 11:34

Mr Jack said:
Bridgestone tyres were awful for F1. Pirelli are a vast improvement.

The new tires are crap imho how can a real racing driver push the car if the tires give up after 10-15 laps?

But lets look at the facts shall we
2007 won by Kimi by 1 point
2008 won by Lewis by 1 point
2009 won by Jenson by 11 points
2010 won vettel by 4 points
All the above was on Brigestone

2011 won by vettel by 134 and it's still going,this season is a joke.Ditch the DRS and Kers and give the car back to the driver.

mattyg · 1 Nov 2011 at 11:47

Stuff that. Give all the teams a box and tell them the car has to fit in that. Gloves off best team wins

Mr Jack · 1 Nov 2011 at 11:47

deuse said:
2011 won by vettel by 134 and it's still going,this season is a joke.Ditch the DRS and Kers and give the car back to the driver.

I see no reason to believe that the closeness of the season relates to the KERS and the DRS. Red Bull have delivered a simply better car and kept it up all season, that is all.

As I said it's been a dull championship contest, but the races themselves have been much better.