Indian Grand Prix 2011, Buddh International Circuit - Race 17/19

Tute · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:17

kaiowas said:
I'm not arguing that he didn't ignore the flags. I've not actually seen it yet (currently watching the rerun). I'm arguing that the actual penalty is not consistant with previous rulings/penalties. A 3 place drop almost suggests that the stewards have thought "Yeah he ignored the flags but it wasn't too bad so lets not give him the full punishment"

Sorry, my post wasn't intended at anybody in particular. I was more voicing my disdain for the stupid things LH does sometimes that you just can't explain.

I mean it's not like it was an important lap in qualifying or anything. He's now got himself a needless 3 place penalty in a meaningless practice session.

Skeeter · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:18

I think the main problem JRS is that people seem to think there is a big book with every possible offense in it and the standard penalty for it.

Ignoring Yellow Flags: 5 places
Causing a crash: drive through
Inappropriate black man jokes: Fine and a slap on the wrist.

But there isn't. Other than for the few documented rules (engine change, gearbox change, probably a few more) everything else that goes to the stewards is an individual isolated incident, and should be dealt with accordingly (although the Rosberg statement from Korea suggested this might not always be the case).

Skeeter · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:20

Tute said:
Sorry, my post wasn't intended at anybody in particular. I was more voicing my disdain for the stupid things LH does sometimes that you just can't explain.

I mean it's not like it was an important lap in qualifying or anything. He's now got himself a needless 3 place penalty in a meaningless practice session.

Hi, now I know its Lewis and everyone loves to have a go, but you are aware that Perez got the exact same penalty for the exact same thing, and and Button would have too if the HRT hadn't slowed him down?

Mr Men · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:33

Skeeter said:
Hi, now I know its Lewis and everyone loves to have a go, but you are aware that Perez got the exact same penalty for the exact same thing, and and Button would have too if the HRT hadn't slowed him down?

Perez is a rookie

Button is clutching at straws

Skeeter · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:40

Mr Men said:
Perez is a rookie Button is clutching at straws

The rookie argument again...

Perez has spent his entire racing career aware of how the flag system works. Just because he is new to F1 doesn't mean he suddenly forgot the general rules of racing.

2 guys didn't obey yellow flags, they got a penalty, lets just put it away and move on.

Mr.Fantastic · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:43

What people aren't saying from what i have seen is that Hamilton had done his two fastest laps under yellow flag condition but the FIA screwed up on there end (they put the track green but the marshals was still waving double yellow flags) and put the track green to which Hamilton was still on a flying lap and continued pushing to the end of his lap.

Mr Men · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:45

Skeeter said:
The rookie argument again...

Perez has spent his entire racing career aware of how the flag system works. Just because he is new to F1 doesn't mean he suddenly forgot the general rules of racing.

As has Lewis but you try to excuse him because someone else done it

Flibster · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:47

Apparently the light system on the steering wheels were showing green. Track report was showing all clear. Lights on track were green.

Seems like only one steward post was still waving the flags.

Skeeter · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:53

Mr Men said:
As has Lewis but you try to excuse him because someone else done it

You what?

I'm not excusing anyone. They both made the mistake. They both got the penalty they deserved.

I'm just pointing out, once again, that the forums and the media in general have all gone "OMG Hamilton to the stewards again!!!", while completely ignoring Perez.

Its back to the same point I keep trying to make that all the attention around Hamilton has more to do with the fact that 'its Hamilton', rather than what he is doing being anything remarkable.

But its a point I have failed to make time and time again as people just ignorantly throw the fanboy flag around.

Duke · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:58

P1 and 2 times added to first post. They took a second off the quickest time from P1 to P2, which is faster than the time Pirelli expected - 1:27.000

FrankJH · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:02

Tute said:
It does mean he'll need a good qualifying position to save his race though.

Not really - quali this season hasnt been as important to race results this season (13th to 3rd in Italy for JB in a dry race) , and thats without the nature of the track inparticular where drivers are suggesting the same (even if McLaren arent great tomorrow and are behind the Ferrari's as well, they should do reasonably in the race baring any incident)

Mr Men · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:07

Skeeter said:
I'm just pointing out, once again, that the forums and the media in general have all gone "OMG Hamilton to the stewards again!!!", while completely ignoring Perez.

Maybe because Lewis has been punished again, how many times has Perez been up at the stewards?

FrankJH · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:08

Duke said:
P1 and 2 times added to first post. They took a second off the quickest time from P1 to P2, which is faster than the time Pirelli expected - 1:27.000

Might this equate to higher tyre wear than Pirelli expected - and therefore a better race?

GravyMonster · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:11

Skeeter said:
I'm just pointing out, once again, that the forums and the media in general have all gone "OMG Hamilton to the stewards again!!!", while completely ignoring Perez.

I think that's because Perez was bang to rights. He went through that sector about 1 minute before Hamilton, when the track and his dash were still showing yellow lights. Hamilton went through after the track had returned to full green, apart from that one marshall post.

Either way, what's done is done. Hopefully Hamilton will go all 'angry taz' and blitz the field from 3rd on the grid

GravyMonster · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:13

FrankJH said:
Might this equate to higher tyre wear than Pirelli expected - and therefore a better race?

I don't think so, as from what Paul Hembrey is saying on twitter in answer to the drivers saying that the hard tyre is too hard and doesn't have any grip, is that Pirelli basically had to stick a finger in the air to predict the surface of the track as it wasn't laid when they had to construct the tyres. This means they went a bit conservative on tyre life, so most likely a 1/2 stop race, with tyre wear only being caused by sliding due to lack of grip.

I can see this playing in to Saubers hands with their 'stay out until you can see tyre canvas' strategy, so they may be on for a good few points.

Skeeter · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:16

Spunkey said:
Either way, what's done is done. Hopefully Hamilton will go all 'angry taz' and blitz the field from 3rd on the grid

Lol Angry Taz.

Better than his Huckleberry Hound impression in Korea, or was it more Eeyore?

Ceryndrion · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:42

You know, the more I think about it, the more I am slightly puzzled by all the commentator complaints so far this weekend. Yes, putting them in broom cupboards is a but of a sucky thing for them, but really, how much of a Grand Prix, do the commentators spend actually looking out of the window, I thought that for 99% of the race, they are watching the same footage we are watching, only they have access to the track timing data screens also.

Big fuss about nothing really.

Demon · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:54

Ceryndrion said:
You know, the more I think about it, the more I am slightly puzzled by all the commentator complaints so far this weekend. Yes, putting them in broom cupboards is a but of a sucky thing for them, but really, how much of a Grand Prix, do the commentators spend actually looking out of the window, I thought that for 99% of the race, they are watching the same footage we are watching, only they have access to the track timing data screens also.

Big fuss about nothing really.

On that level, why do they even fly to the circuit? Why not stay at home?

Having a view/audio from outside is different to what is shown on TV, they often tell you how dark it actually is (TV Feed is not representative of the actual lighting), or how they notice certain engine noises as the cars go by, cars that might not be shown on their TV feeds..

I think it's sensible to give them a reasonable view of the circuit,and have the ability to hear with their own ears what's going on, since it's a new circuit, you'd think it'd have all the 'best' practices built in..

I'd say their response is about right, it's not ideal, and it looks a crap place to have to sit to comment on the race etc..

Mind you, I haven't seen too many pictures of other commentators rooms at other circuits... I just know from listening to years of commentary that being in position to have audio/visual direct view of the race seems to pop up more often then not.

What if all the video feed dies? At least being able to see something of the circuit would help? Or they end up discussing non-sense stuff ?

Duke · 28 Oct 2011 at 13:54

Ceryndrion said:
You know, the more I think about it, the more I am slightly puzzled by all the commentator complaints so far this weekend. Yes, putting them in broom cupboards is a but of a sucky thing for them, but really, how much of a Grand Prix, do the commentators spend actually looking out of the window, I thought that for 99% of the race, they are watching the same footage we are watching, only they have access to the track timing data screens also.

Big fuss about nothing really.

I think they like to be able to look down on the pits and see what is going on down there but yeah I kinda know what you mean.

El_Watcher · 28 Oct 2011 at 14:00

Ceryndrion said:
Big fuss about nothing really.

Do you not remember the race when Button pulled into the RedBull pit instead of Mclaren. MB/DC saw it from the window and the TV view was actually from inside the commentary box looking down on it.

If that were to happen again with no windows in the boxes, it may be completely missed if the director doesn't notice it.

Also throughout Thursday the track was having power cuts. At least with a window if the lights go out you can still see.