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Intel 10th Gen Comet Lake thread

Dave2150 said:
Nope. Vast majority out there using X86 systems are employees working from home, furloughed etc. Loads use Macs. Of those using X86, most will be using Dell laptops, connecting via VPN to the work enviroment where they'll have instanced resources (hosted on VM's). Dell don't even sell AMD laptops last I checked.

Of those buying home PC's, vast majority are doing so to game. Intel wins at gaming, even on 5 year old process and architecture. That's the fact.

Of course of those buying home PC's, less than 1% will have a use case or business where render times can actually utilise 12, 16 core monsters. Of course AMD crush Intel in this regard. Just don't try and make it out like average Joe can utilize more than 3-6 cores, it doesn't cut.
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I actually consider Ryzen 3000 and Comet Lake neck and neck in gaming when the difference in most games is 5% and you need a 2080Ti and game at 1080p to see this 'gap'....

I mean seriously, an increase in performance that is so small you can never even get close to noticing even under 1080p with a 2080 Ti for a much higher power draw...sure, you can still cling to the idea that this means Intel 'wins' in gaming but this is a rather desperate point outside of pedants or pro gamers that like to game at 244fps instead of 230fps.
 
Dave2150 said:
AMD have yet to beat Intel in gaming performance. When you consider this properly, it shows just how far Intel are ahead in gaming...

Intel have a 5 year old process node (14nm). Intel have a 4.5 year old architecture (Skylake). It still beats Ryzen for gaming. Ryzen should have been top dog in gaming by now, in my opinion it's very disappointing that they aren't.

In some games the difference is 1%, in others it's 5%, not big numbers, but these do matter. Why do they matter? Consider what will happen when Intel actually release a 10nm or 7nm desktop CPU, with IPC likely around 20% (perhaps closer to 50%, when we look at alderlake) above Skylake?

AMD will yet again be completely crushed, and Intel will have free reign like they had in the Bulldozer days.
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Nobody is worried about intels 10nm, do you know why? Because they will sell a 4 core cpu for 400 bucks for 5 years.
 
The only reason intel are "ahead" in gaming (per their use a 2080ti and 1080p instructions) is their cpu's are achieving higher clocks and that's about it. And that advantage is going away as seen by the 10900k, it's ragged to an inch of its life just to show any improvement over the 9900k. Intel are really scraping the barrel currently, until they get a node shrink i doubt they will have any real improvement on their current top end. Zen is a new cpu and it generally does take a while for clocks to scale up.
 
Dave2150 said:
Nope. Vast majority out there using X86 systems are employees working from home, furloughed etc. Loads use Macs. Of those using X86, most will be using Dell laptops, connecting via VPN to the work enviroment where they'll have instanced resources (hosted on VM's). Dell don't even sell AMD laptops last I checked.

Of those buying home PC's, vast majority are doing so to game. Intel wins at gaming, even on 5 year old process and architecture. That's the fact.

Of course of those buying home PC's, less than 1% will have a use case or business where render times can actually utilise 12, 16 core monsters. Of course AMD crush Intel in this regard. Just don't try and make it out like average Joe can utilize more than 3-6 cores, it doesn't cut.
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Wouldn't be so sure these days. Almost my entire work estate is AMD - Ryzen laptops HP 745 G6 machines connecting to X86 AMD Epyc servers. The desktop estate is intel but it won't be in 2 weeks time because power/space has just become a huge issue. I wouldn't be so sure in saying that the enterprise isn't buying AMD because I know a hell of a lot of people who are. Myself included, ive just pulled the trigger on 100 elitedesk 705 g5 minis and inside, you guessed it, Ryzen because in that power envelope and size there isn't a better option.

Also loads use mac? osx market share is <15%. Few businesses use macs.
 
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Vince said:
Wouldn't be so sure these days. Almost my entire work estate is AMD - Ryzen laptops HP 745 G6 machines connecting to X86 AMD Epyc servers. The desktop estate is intel but it won't be in 2 weeks time because power/space has just become a huge issue. I wouldn't be so sure in saying that the enterprise isn't buying AMD because I know a hell of a lot of people who are. Myself included, ive just pulled the trigger on 100 elitedesk 705 g5 minis and inside, you guessed it, Ryzen because in that power envelope and size there isn't a better option.
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Same, the few Intels that are left are on the way out - replaced with Ryzens and EPYCs
 
Grim5 said:
Same, the few Intels that are left are on the way out - replaced with Ryzens and EPYCs
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This is the story in so many SME's and even in the DC some of the stead fast Intel boys are slowly transferring over, where you haven't got specific arguments for Intel optimised code etc and you aren't moving over then who's money are you spending? I know if I turn around and say this is faster, cheaper, as reliable, consumes less energy and gives us this path over the next 10 years saving x amount, nobody is turning around and saying no please don't save us money and give us better infrastructure. I should be in a major uk dc in a few weeks when I colo the rest of my kit. I will have a walk around as it is always interesting to see how quickly kit is getting upgraded and the balance of Intel VS AMD racks.

There used to be better arguments but if you run the numbers these days vs performance (for at least the last year or so) and don't have specific use cases that favour the Intel architecture then there is only one option that actually makes sense. This is at least true for most SME, in the server space nothing comes even close to the performance of epyc and that is basically just how it is, it's a similar story in the hedt market, if you are buying hedt you aren't buying intel right now most likely as that new threadripper crushes everything.

More on topic though, the 10th gen where actually a bit better than I thought they would be and are a decent attempt at holding on to some more market, at least the 10600k seems a solid buy for a gaming chip.
 
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Not at all what I'm seeing in a medium MSP. Still 99% Intel. Dell don't even sell Ryzen laptops or workstations yet.

@Vince , @Grim5 , I'm curious as to what share of the business market you believe Intel/AMD to have? From your two posts above, you're suggesting AMD are overtaking Intel?....... Do you know how wrong this is? Intel dominate business, as AMD aren't allowed to compete in the vast majority of scenarios.

Here's the latest data I can find (Feb 2020). The source is Dean McCarron of Mercury Research (google it if you want to read/find it yourself).

IUHOIpJ.png


Yes, AMD are gaining year on year, which is good. They are still extremely far behind Intel though, especially for high profit margin business, where it's most important.

Worth remembering Intel have been stuck on an old architecture (skylake) for 5 years and are due to release their new architecture soon. This is probably AMD's only chance to offer superior performance (in highly threaded workloads) before Intel swat the fly again. I doubt they have more than 6 months of competition vs Skylake before this happens.
 
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Dave2150 said:
Not at all what I'm seeing in a medium MSP. Still 99% Intel. Dell don't even sell Ryzen laptops or workstations yet.

@Vince , @Grim5 , I'm curious as to what share of the business market you believe Intel/AMD to have? From your two posts above, you're suggesting AMD are overtaking Intel?....... Do you know how wrong this is? Intel dominate business, as AMD aren't allowed to compete in the vast majority of scenarios.

Here's the latest data I can find (Feb 2020). The source is Dean McCarron of Mercury Research (google it if you want to read/find it yourself).

IUHOIpJ.png


Yes, AMD are gaining year on year, which is good. They are still extremely far behind Intel though, especially for high profit margin business, where it's most important.

Worth remembering Intel have been stuck on an old architecture (skylake) for 5 years and are due to release their new architecture soon. This is probably AMD's only chance to offer superior performance (in highly threaded workloads) before Intel swat the fly again. I doubt they have more than 6 months of competition vs Skylake before this happens.
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Dell owe their position in the market to Intel's bribes, so its hardly surprising.....

And i like how people always keep the faith that Intel will heroically put AMD back in their box soon....

SOON
soon
soon
soon
soon
 
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Dell are working their rear ends off to keep Intel relevant... Its going to backfire in them.

We gave repeatedly asked for AMD quotes fir workstations, servers and laptops powered by AMD, and time after time its ignored by our rep.

Our company is a global manufacturer, irish owned, with 55k+ people globally, and due to the pandemic we have taken a financial hit, albeit not as severe as some as we provide packaging for medical supplies and many others.

One thing i was told last week direct from the top, that expenditure is going to be reigned in due to the pandemic, Dell have ignored our requests, were now looking at HP and probably Lenovo to provide our hardware, incidentally we provide all of Dells packaging as well.

The fact is the company will look at every single avenue to not only save money but actually earn money from saving it, for example we operate our own CHP Plant, excess generated electricity is sold back to the grid, i believe it nets us annually around £1 million, its not a huge part of our revenue infact its pretty insignificant really but all financial people love to save money.

Like most companies of our size and type, Financial and IT depts share the same senior management, we are constantly being asked how to save money, company has noticed a surge in power being sold back to the grid during lockdown. If there is no one there to use it, sell it back.

When we told them were being forced to buy equipment that is just inefficient when compared to the competitors it raises eye brows.

I garauntee were not the only company looking at things this way as well.

Global debt means we have to look at how to remain effective yet save at the same time, Intel are massively behind the curve here, if anything this Pandemic has done AMD a favour as many companies like ours will be looking at microscopic details into where they can save cash.

Our client hardware is replaced every few years but about a 3rd each year, Server infrastructure the same, once we move across i think it will be a long time before we go back.

I think its been Dell for the past 15years globally, that is likely to change in the near future if they dont stop taking intels bribes
 
KentMan said:
Dell are working their rear ends off to keep Intel relevant... Its going to backfire in them.

We gave repeatedly asked for AMD quotes fir workstations, servers and laptops powered by AMD, and time after time its ignored by our rep.

Our company is a global manufacturer, irish owned, with 55k+ people globally, and due to the pandemic we have taken a financial hit, albeit not as severe as some as we provide packaging for medical supplies and many others.

One thing i was told last week direct from the top, that expenditure is going to be reigned in due to the pandemic, Dell have ignored our requests, were now looking at HP and probably Lenovo to provide our hardware, incidentally we provide all of Dells packaging as well.

The fact is the company will look at every single avenue to not only save money but actually earn money from saving it, for example we operate our own CHP Plant, excess generated electricity is sold back to the grid, i believe it nets us annually around £1 million, its not a huge part of our revenue infact its pretty insignificant really but all financial people love to save money.

Like most companies of our size and type, Financial and IT depts share the same senior management, we are constantly being asked how to save money, company has noticed a surge in power being sold back to the grid during lockdown. If there is no one there to use it, sell it back.

When we told them were being forced to buy equipment that is just inefficient when compared to the competitors it raises eye brows.

I garauntee were not the only company looking at things this way as well.

Global debt means we have to look at how to remain effective yet save at the same time, Intel are massively behind the curve here, if anything this Pandemic has done AMD a favour as many companies like ours will be looking at microscopic details into where they can save cash.

Our client hardware is replaced every few years but about a 3rd each year, Server infrastructure the same, once we move across i think it will be a long time before we go back.

I think its been Dell for the past 15years globally, that is likely to change in the near future if they dont stop taking intels bribes
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Dell are a joke, they've been intel arselickers for at least 2 decades and even after the lawsuit against intel they haven't changed their stance much.
 
Gerard said:
Dell are a joke, they've been intel arselickers for at least 2 decades and even after the lawsuit against intel they haven't changed their stance much.
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Yep, but when the guy whose name is on your company, and an irish buddy of Michael Dell, you expect that your going to have to use them lol.

Ive sat in a meeting with Dell and the rep literally ignores any AMD questions
 
humbug said:
Dell owe their position in the market to Intel's bribes, so its hardly surprising.....

And i like how people always keep the faith that Intel will heroically put AMD back in their box soon....

SOON
soon
soon
soon
soon
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan boy either way , but i guarantee you that if it wasn't for the issues with Intels 10nm that we wouldn't be discussing this right now, its almost like people want Intel and Nvidia to fail on this forum , put it this way on a 14nm process Amd shouldn't be Just ahead they should be miles ahead , and their not.
 
They are miles ahead in everything other than gaming...server and productivity Intel are crushed.

Otherwise wouldn’t see AMD gaining market share.
 
Dave2150 said:
Not at all what I'm seeing in a medium MSP. Still 99% Intel. Dell don't even sell Ryzen laptops or workstations yet.

@Vince , @Grim5 , I'm curious as to what share of the business market you believe Intel/AMD to have? From your two posts above, you're suggesting AMD are overtaking Intel?....... Do you know how wrong this is? Intel dominate business, as AMD aren't allowed to compete in the vast majority of scenarios.
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We know it's not a lot, read my post, at no point did I say anything about market share or what percentage people are buying either way other than to correct the apple stuff. I felt I needed to correct your post which made it look like the majority of people working in enterprise are using either mac or dell which you will see below is just a small section of what is actually going on. On the mac front "loads" is obviously a vast exaggeration unless "loads" falls within that 15% market share. Id be surprised if 5% of organisations are supporting mac's where their core infrastructure is x86.

Loads use Macs.
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or not as the case may be.

At no point was I suggesting that AMD have overtaken, I was merely pointing out that as stated , my observations based on safenames datacenters etc are that in the SME there is a clear push to AMD. I work alongside several data centers, know their deployments and whether you like it or not there is a lot of market movement towards AMD and EPYC in those markets, they won't take it overnight but it's clear, at least to me, that people are seriously considering the options now when looking at refreshes, I ran the numbers myself and shared them in the thread on EPYC in here, the numbers alone make EPYC very compelling. In fact they make it a no brainer if you don't have a reliance on specifically tuned Intel code.

Then we go on to look at a single vendor - Dell, when in fact there are a multitude of vendors that are shipping Enterprise kit, dell are not the only enterprise vendor in fact they don't even own the marklet, Dell have approx 15.7% market share against HPE 16.3%. As outlined in my post I gave you a multitude of AMD based systems that are available and shipping now and that I am buying in volume, a few years ago I wouldn't have been able to even consider AMD kit because frankly it just wasn't good enough or even really available. All they really had in the enterprise space was Bristol Ridge and nobody was buying it. Choose what you want to believe I am just telling you how it is.

Also lets just put the dell thing straight, you didn't expect me to sit back and not have a look right? The Dell G5 15 with ryzen says dell do sell AMD kit ;) 4000 series business laptops, on a 4 day lead as well. Then I looked at servers and they have at least 8 different EPYC chassis again available for me to buy right now, then workstations/desktops and that appears to be the only area where there isn't an AMD option at this point in time unless you want to go alienware. I feel as though it is a bit disingenuous to say they don't sell enterprise AMD when 30 seconds on their site says otherwise.

As I pointed out in previous posts this isn't even an Intel vs an AMD thing, frankly I don't care and will buy what meets requirements. It's just an observation thing over the past few years. Finally that last line of your last post, lets talk again in 2022 and see if you stick by anything said in this thread ;)
 
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Sargatanas2511 said:
Ideal would be multiple companies involved and not just 2. I would love to see Intel get into the dGPU market and make an impact.
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Intel have a dev kit available now for the new dGPU (or at least very soon) - we're probably at least 12 months minimum from them having a midrange card available though I would think (could be a lot longer)
 
To go with the post I just made on AMD, testing shows that on asus pre tuned bios for intel 10th gen, that for an increase of circa 25C in temps, the users gain a mere 100-200mhz.
 
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