Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851

[Game]

I used to do that. I could never throw a system out. I would just "re-purpose" it. But I eventually realised that it was better to sell the parts on ebay and buy specific hardware for the job. Like I use intel T processors for media-PC's and NAS's and so on.

I go in phases before the kids would update loads now I stick as its to much hassle with family computers but that might change as they all get older

 

[Mr Jack]

I used to do that. I could never throw a system out. I would just "re-purpose" it.

If by "re-purpose" you mean put it somewhere to gather dust on the off chance it will be useful later than that's exactly what I do with mine

Although my last did get re-purposed into a machine for my wife 'cos she wanted to play Balder's Gate 3. I think she spent three hours choosing her first character and then never got round to playing so not that different from usual really.

 

[jigger]

Gamers won't though. I wonder what proportion of sales are to gamers? I note that Asus are talking substantial cash back on their Z890 motherboards already.

I am about THE most loyal intel buyer there has ever been. But I am leaning towards AMD at the moment. I think the only reason I am waiting to see what intel come out with, in the next few weeks, is that the 9800X3D is sold out right now. Truth is, I can't believe that intel are going to recover this situation.

I do think that the reviewers have concentrated on very unrealistic tests. No enthusiast plays at 1080P and when you look at the 1440P then there is less reason to be so hyped about the 9800X3D. They are like the mainstream media now, they are looking for drama where there isn't any. Having said that, intel need to sort out the instabilities and weird results. At the moment it's not a rock solid CPU. It better be quick, though, because I am going to build a new PC within two months.

The vast majority of gamers will also buy Intel. Honestly you don’t need to worry about reviews favouring Intel or be concerned that AMD selling out is hurting Intel. Intel wins by default.

 

[humbug]

The vast majority of DIY'ers buy AMD, the vast majority of prebuilds are Intel, IMO this is because Intel have a long standing and well developed relationship with pre-builders, honestly that is a significant part of it, AMD just don't have anything like as well a developed relationship with them, and while they sure as the wold is round will improve that i don't think it will ever get to quite the level Intel have it, for one AMD are never likely to hire 20,000 sales reps to foster those relationships with all of them, they have a few who they concentrate on, shop brands like Lenovo, Asus, Minisforum ecte.... but not all of them and none of your custom builders like CyberpowerPC, OriginPC, Falcon Northwest ecte...

Intel also do everything they can to maintain a monopoly with them, they do this by heavily subsidising them with cashback incentives, heavy discounts ecte at levels AMD are not going to match, the thing is' that and hiring many thousands of sales reps is why Intel aren't turning a profit, AMD are and their reasoning is let them do that, let them spaff all their money away on this pig headedness while we make money and still grow despite Intel's efforts.

 

[Grim5]

The vast majority of DIY'ers buy AMD, the vast majority of prebuilds are Intel, IMO this is because Intel have a long standing and well developed relationship with pre-builders, honestly that is a significant part of it, AMD just don't have anything like as well a developed relationship with them, and while they sure as the wold is round they will improve that i don't think it will ever get to quite the level Intel have it, for one AMD are never likely to hire 20,000 sales reps to foster those relationships with all of them, they have a few who they concentrate on, shop brands like Lenovo, Asus, Minisforum ecte.... but not all of them and none of your custom builders like CyberpowerPC, OriginPC, Falcon Northwest ecte...

Intel also do everything they can to maintain a monopoly with them, they do this by heavily subsidising them with cashback incentives, heavy discounts ecte at levels AMD are not going to match, the thing is' that and hiring many thousands of sales reps is why Intel aren't turning a profit, AMD are and their reasoning is let them do that, let them spaff all their money away on this pig headedness while we make money and still grow despite Intel's efforts.

Intel only seems to be leaning more and more towards this business strategy- recent rumours suggest Intel is will no longer make desktop GPUs after Battlemage, they will instead stick to making integrated and discrete GPus for laptops- so basically only supplying the prebuilt market and ignoring DIY

 

[FredFlint]

The vast majority of DIY'ers buy AMD, the vast majority of prebuilds are Intel, IMO this is because Intel have a long standing and well developed relationship with pre-builders, honestly that is a significant part of it, AMD just don't have anything like as well a developed relationship with them, and while they sure as the wold is round will improve that i don't think it will ever get to quite the level Intel have it, for one AMD are never likely to hire 20,000 sales reps to foster those relationships with all of them, they have a few who they concentrate on, shop brands like Lenovo, Asus, Minisforum ecte.... but not all of them and none of your custom builders like CyberpowerPC, OriginPC, Falcon Northwest ecte...

Intel also do everything they can to maintain a monopoly with them, they do this by heavily subsidising them with cashback incentives, heavy discounts ecte at levels AMD are not going to match, the thing is' that and hiring many thousands of sales reps is why Intel aren't turning a profit, AMD are and their reasoning is let them do that, let them spaff all their money away on this pig headedness while we make money and still grow despite Intel's efforts.

AMD cannot supply the volume that OEM's buy, It does not matter if your chips are the best if you cannot supply enough of them.

 

[humbug]

AMD cannot supply the volume that OEM's buy, It does not matter if your chips are the best if you cannot supply enough of them.

And yet Arrow Lake and Luna Lake are made at TSMC, 3nm, that's all of their Desktop, DIY and Laptop chips made by TSMC.

AMD can supply the demand if the demand is there, AMD are gaining marketshare constantly and at a steady pace, they aren't going to buy wafers they don't need, instead they ramp supply orders as their marketshare grows

I mean we have been saying AMD cannot supply a larger market for years, this argument is old, during that time AMD's marketshare and with it supply needs has grown by multiple factors and continues to do so. This argument was wrong for the last serval years its been made, its wrong now, it will continue to be wrong.

 

[FredFlint]

And yet Arrow Lake and Luna Lake are made at TSMC, 3nm, that's all of their Desktop, DIY and Laptop chips made by TSMC.

AMD can supply the demand if the demand is there, AMD are gaining marketshare constantly and at a steady pace, they aren't going to buy wafers they don't need, instead they ramp supply orders as their marketshare grows

That's for the cores, Intel may produce some of the tiles in-house(I don't know which), think they also do the chip packaging in-house. Intel using TSMC reduces AMD's volume further. Part of why Intel sales are so high is they can deliver massive volume.

 

[humbug]

That's for the cores, Intel may produce some of the tiles in-house(I don't know which), think they also do the chip packaging in-house. Intel using TSMC reduces AMD's volume ferther. Part of why Intel sales are so high is they can delive massive volume.

Compute Tile: TSMC N3B, this is the largest tile and contains all the cores and cache.
iGPU Tile: TSMC N5.
SoC Tile: TSMC N6.
IO Tile: TSMC N6.

The whole thing is made by TSMC, what's more its about 250mm in size, about 30% larger than Zen 5 which is on TSMC N4P / N6

 

[FredFlint]

Compute Tile: TSMC N3B, this is the largest tile and contains all the cores and cache.
iGPU Tile: TSMC N5.
SoC Tile: TSMC N6.
IO TileL TSMC N6.

The whole thing is made by TSMC, what's more its about 250mm in size, about 30% larger than Zen 5 which is on N5 / N6

That even more capacity taken. AMD is probably using the lion share of its capacity for enterprise/AI stuff.

 

[humbug]

That even more capacity taken. AMD is probably using the lion share of its capacity for enterprise/AI stuff.

The beauty of Ryzen is that it is one singular compute tile for all X86 products, AMD don't know which segment those 8 core chiplets end up in until after they have been manufactured, unlike Intel's MCM design which is literally a CPU with the south and north bridge removed to external off-chip AMD can use one chiplet to make an 8 core CPU or glue 12 of them together to make a 96 core EPYC, scalable modularity means they can manufacture a bucket load of one chip type and share that bucket load out right across the range of X86 products.

Intel can't, if they make a chip for Arrow Lake it can't be anything other than Arrow Lake, because Arrow Lake is a CPU in its self with more bits that are also not interchangeable glued on to it, honestly Intel mocking AMD's glue they didn't get it then and somehow they still don't, unless they do but don't have the technical expertise to pull it off but like to pretend they do by recreating a Pentium 4, which was before we decided having the north and south bridge on the motherboard was not a great idea.

 

[FredFlint]

The beauty of Ryzen is that it is one singular compute tile for all X86 products, AMD don't know which segment those 8 core chiplets end up in until after they have been manufactured, unlike Intel's MCM design which is literally a CPU with the south and north bridge removed to external off-chip AMD can use one chiplet to make an 8 core CPU or glue 12 of them together to make a 96 core EPYC, scalable modularity means they can manufacture a bucket load of one chip type and share that bucket load out right across the range of X86 products.

Intel can't, if they make a chip for Arrow Lake it can't be anything other than Arrow Lake, because Arrow Lake is a CPU in its self with more bits that are also not interchangeable glued on to it, honestly Intel mocking AMD's glue they didn't get it then and somehow they still don't, unless they do but don't have the technical expertise to pull it off but like to pretend they do by recreating a Pentium 4, which was before we decided having the north and south bridge on the motherboard was not a great idea.

AMD chiplet design is very flexible, It will help them make the most of what manufacturing capacity they have although its not used for everything as it has a relatively high idle power. Probably why laptops and handheld's don't use it. Intel has more manufacturing capacity than it needs so it does not need to think the same way.

 

[humbug]

Yes tho Strix Halo will, early next year, it'll be interesting to see if AMD found a solution to the high idle power problem.

 

[cebri]

Yes tho Strix Halo will, early next year, it'll be interesting to see if AMD found a solution to the high idle power problem.

AMD will suffer in the laptop space anyway, if Panther Lake (Cougar Cove) offers at least 5% IPC increase over ARL + 18A and Celestial, it’s going to be the dominant architecture from late 25 until late 26 with no opposition as Zen6 is late 2026 at the earliest.

 

[humbug]

AMD will suffer in the laptop space anyway, if Panther Lake (Cougar Cove) offers at least 5% IPC increase over ARL + 18A and Celestial, it’s going to be the dominant architecture from late 25 until late 26 with no opposition as Zen6 is late 2026 at the earliest.

I think AMD need to do everything they can to foster relationships, even if that means playing Intel at their own game to a much more focused extent, Intel are loosing money hand over fist and if i was AMD i would be testing how far Intel are willing to go with one or two key players, like for example Lenovo.

Its like do you want to give them CPU's for free? how long for? Lets go there..... are you coming? Intel?

 

[g67575]

Why am I not surprised:

Intel Announces Retirement of CEO Pat Gelsinger - VideoCardz.com

David Zinsner and Michelle Johnston Holthaus named interim Co-CEOs. Holthaus also appointed to the newly created position of CEO of Intel Products. Frank Yeary named interim executive chair. SANTA CLARA, Calif.–(BUSINESS WIRE)– Intel Corporation (NASDAQ: INTC) today announced that CEO Pat...

videocardz.com

Earlier this year, there was a rumour that Pat Gelsinger had said something to annoy TSMC, and that they had increased wafer prices as a result… A decision that presumably impacts both Arrow Lake and the 16th gen refresh.

I think the decision to ‘retire’ Gelsinger probably has a lot to do with their share price and unhappy investors.

Michelle Holthaus is the CEO of Intel products as of 01/12/2024, it looks like she will be the main person in charge for now.

Gelsinger off for a comfortable, but early retirement now:

Intel CEOs of late don’t seem to enjoy quite the same glamour of other similar companies like AMD and Nvidia.

 

[TrixP10]

AMD will suffer in the laptop space anyway, if Panther Lake (Cougar Cove) offers at least 5% IPC increase over ARL + 18A and Celestial, it’s going to be the dominant architecture from late 25 until late 26 with no opposition as Zen6 is late 2026 at the earliest.

if if if, tomorrow tomorrow etc.

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