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Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

jigger said:
Competitive-ish right at the end of a Zen product cycle with a 50% failure rate.

If you had the choice of buying AM5 and whatever Intels latest socket is and didn’t pick AM5, you made the wrong choice.
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I am actually on AM4, and am talking purely about performance. I am not taking anything into account like power envelope or (almost certainly not as high as 50%) failure rates.

Plus these things are recent, not over the last decade.
 
Sargatanas2511 said:
I am actually on AM4, and am talking purely about performance. I am not taking anything into account like power envelope or (almost certainly not as high as 50%) failure rates.

Plus these things are recent, not over the last decade.
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It’s hard to say what these failures will look like, as by this point in time these parts should be well into most stable part of the bell curve with minimal premature failure rates. I think over time this issue could become worse.
 
We don't really know what the ultimate failure rate is yet aside from not being zero - it could be anywhere from point something of a percent through to 100%. There are a fair few forum posts from people with 13th or 14th gen i9 issues but only a subset have details which largely confirm as being this problem specifically and those reports in reality are a tiny number compared to the number of i9 CPUs sold - though that doesn't mean other people aren't suffering from crashes and either living with it or simply replacing or returning the CPU, etc. and a tiny number of individual cases of i7s which may be this issue. Then there is a mix of companies from suppliers to end users with large setups reporting anything from very low to very high failure rates, which could be explained as being a batch related problem maybe, or a difference in use case being more or less likely to expose the issue and so on.
 
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Rroff said:
We don't really know what the ultimate failure rate is yet aside from not being zero - it could be anywhere from point something of a percent through to 100%. There are a fair few forum posts from people with 13th or 14th gen i9 issues but only a subset have details which largely confirm as being this problem specifically and those reports in reality are a tiny number compared to the number of i9 CPUs sold - though that doesn't mean other people aren't suffering from crashes and either living with it or simply replacing or returning the CPU, etc. and a tiny number of individual cases of i7s which may be this issue. Then there is a mix of companies from suppliers to end users with large setups reporting anything from very low to very high failure rates, which could be explained as being a batch related problem maybe, or a difference in use case being more or less likely to expose the issue and so on.
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We can deduce with some certainty that these failures are going to become worse over time. Intels failure bell curve seems upside down.
 
jigger said:
We can deduce with some certainty that these failures are going to become worse over time. Intels failure bell curve seems upside down.
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To a degree but it still isn't known exactly what is going on and whether limited to certain batches or not. One SI for example is saying they've not (so far) seen degradation with systems built near release but a certain number of those were faulty out the box and the replacement CPUs are the ones which have been degrading.
 
Rroff said:
To a degree but it still isn't known exactly what is going on and whether limited to certain batches or not. One SI for example is saying they've not (so far) seen degradation with systems built near release but a certain number of those were faulty out the box and the replacement CPUs are the ones which have been degrading.
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This issue is spanning three generations and all parts seem effected to some degree. Power use (essentially frequency) seems to have a statistically significant impact and is being used as a mitigation strategy to prolong life span or regain stability but seems a temporary fix. Considering the power use of these chips some operators may have already deployed this mitigation to reduce opex.

I’d say Intel have more than a single issue to resolve plus all the pending issues. If any of what we’re seeing is because of Intel dropping another node clanger then it’s going to be a big problem for the whole industry.
 
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Intel admits their mobile processors have this issue too, but its not related, same thing but different reasons, okay.... that's erm? Good to know.

youtu.be

AMD Finally Falls

► Check out today's hottest tech deals here: https://www.ufd.deals/ https://howl.me/cmIKAuWkGS1https://geni.us/KERKY0https://geni.us/qTaB0:00 - Intro 00:49 -...
youtu.be youtu.be
 
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jigger said:
This issue is spanning three generations and all parts seem effected to some degree.
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Yet we've not so far seen 13900Ks for example dropping like flies despite having been out more than 18 months now, just a few sporadic reports, mostly where the CPU was never right out the box, and most of those RMA'd the CPU for a replacement which so far doesn't seem a problem, though a subset of those people have had replacement CPUs which have gone on to degrade in 2-5 months which raises some questions.
 
Rroff said:
Yet we've not so far seen 13900Ks for example dropping like flies despite having been out more than 18 months now, just a few sporadic reports, mostly where the CPU was never right out the box, and most of those RMA'd the CPU for a replacement which so far doesn't seem a problem, though a subset of those people have had replacement CPUs which have gone on to degrade in 2-5 months which raises some questions.
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The KS didn’t sell in great numbers so not a great data set to compare. Plenty of 13900s are failing.
 
humbug said:
Intel admits their mobile processors have this issue too, but its not related, same thing but different reasons, okay.... that's erm? Good to know.

youtu.be

AMD Finally Falls

► Check out today's hottest tech deals here: https://www.ufd.deals/ https://howl.me/cmIKAuWkGS1https://geni.us/KERKY0https://geni.us/qTaB0:00 - Intro 00:49 -...
youtu.be youtu.be
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Typically the mobile chips got higher tier cores too.
 
jigger said:
The KS didn’t sell in great numbers so not a great data set to compare. Plenty of 13900s are failing.
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The Ks was meant plural not KS. I'm not seeing plenty of 13900s failing aside from the companies mentioned in Wendell's video. Some reports here and there but a tiny number compared to how many have sold.
 
Rroff said:
The Ks was meant plural not KS. I'm not seeing plenty of 13900s failing aside from the companies mentioned in Wendell's video. Some reports here and there but a tiny number compared to how many have sold.
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A couple large firms with almost exclusively 13000 series chips are reporting significant failures with increasing frequency. If you’re working in the supply then it’s unlikely you’d see much of an increase as Intel seem to be dealing directly where possible and replacing chips with newer models.
 
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Rroff said:
The Ks was meant plural not KS. I'm not seeing plenty of 13900s failing aside from the companies mentioned in Wendell's video. Some reports here and there but a tiny number compared to how many have sold.
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What’s your exposure to the failure numbers for companies outside of those already reported?
 
Worthy said:
What’s your exposure to the failure numbers for companies outside of those already reported?
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How do you mean? one of the people I game with does IT for an advertising company with 100s of 13th and 14th gen CPUs and I've still got some contacts in the dedicated hosting business from the days when I used to do game server hosting. None of them are seeing anything like the failure rates Wendell has commented on.
 
Rroff said:
How do you mean? one of the people I game with does IT for an advertising company with 100s of 13th and 14th gen CPUs and I've still got some contacts in the dedicated hosting business from the days when I used to do game server hosting. None of them are seeing anything like the failure rates Wendell has commented on.
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Umm so someone is lying?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Umm so someone is lying?
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Maybe, could be different batches, different use cases, misunderstanding of the data, etc. there is something going on but no one I know to talk to is seeing anything like the scale Wendell's contacts are reporting and it isn't like tech forums are being overwhelmed by reports of it either from individuals or from people's experiences at work, etc.

I'm not ruling anything in or out at this stage.
 
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Intel finally put a statement out:
Thomas_Hannaford:
Based on extensive analysis of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. We are continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Intel is currently targeting mid-August for patch release to partners following full validation.

Intel is committed to making this right with our customers, and we continue asking any customers currently experiencing instability issues on their Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance.
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community.intel.com

July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

*9/25/24 - Please go to the following link for the latest updates: Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processor Vmin Instability Issue Root Cause* *Update 8/26 clarifying support guidance for Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop tray CPU purchases* *Update 7/29 regarding customer support process...
community.intel.com
 
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