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Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

Legion said:
wccftech.com

Intel Publishes Official Response To 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPU Instability Issues: Cites Elevated Operating Voltages As Root Cause, New Microcode Patch In August

Intel has an official statement regarding 13th and 14th Gen CPU instability issues, citing elevating operating voltages as the root cause.
wccftech.com wccftech.com
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They haven't read that statement correctly, Intel didn't say they found the root cause, they said the microcode update would address the root cause of the overvolting.

[...] we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors [...]

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages.
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Tetras said:
They haven't read that statement correctly, Intel didn't say they found the root cause, they said the microcode update would address the root cause of the overvolting.
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To be fair its typically Intel ambiguous.

Based on extensive analysis of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. We are continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Intel is currently targeting mid-August for patch release to partners following full validation.

Intel is committed to making this right with our customers, and we continue asking any customers currently experiencing instability issues on their Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance.
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Are these returned processors they analysed a different issue to the game crashes? or is this a very low key way of saying they fixed the issue everyone is talking about?

Its like "hey Intel, there is a problem and every one is talking about it, what do you have to say about that?"

Silence....

5 Month later.... "we found some voltage issues with some CPU's we had sent to us, fix coming in a couple of months"
 
humbug said:
To be fair its typically Intel ambiguous.
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True, it would be read totally different if we just add a number, for example:

Based on extensive analysis of THREE Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in those THREE 13th/14th Gen desktop processors.
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Which is pretty much how I read their entire statement, hence this is totally inaccurate to me:

Intel Publishes Official Response To 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPU Instability Issues: Cites Elevated Operating Voltages As Root Cause, New Microcode Patch In August​

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Tetras said:
True, it would be read totally different if we just add a number, for example:



Which is pretty much how I read their entire statement, hence this is totally inaccurate to me:
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Yeah i agree... it reads so completely disconnected from what's going on but the thing is its in Intel's interest to down play this whole thing, even to pretend its something they discovered and its so minor no one knows about it because it only effects 3 CPU's, and why is this? Because that's what they will be telling their investors.

Go to investor media and what you will find is no one is talking about it, because they don't know about it, its a big story to us because it effects us, but we are a tiny echo chamber, half the people who invest in Intel don't even know what their products are for, the other half know because the logo is on their laptop.
 
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Rroff said:
How do you mean? one of the people I game with does IT for an advertising company with 100s of 13th and 14th gen CPUs and I've still got some contacts in the dedicated hosting business from the days when I used to do game server hosting. None of them are seeing anything like the failure rates Wendell has commented on.
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I wasn’t sure if you worked for a supplier or something and were/weren’t getting reports from customers.
 
GN's leak confirmed by Intel on reddit:

Short answer: We can confirm there was a via Oxidation manufacturing issue (addressed back in 2023) but it is not related to the instability issue.

Long answer: We can confirm that the via Oxidation manufacturing issue affected some early Intel Core 13th Gen desktop processors. However, the issue was root caused and addressed with manufacturing improvements and screens in 2023. We have also looked at it from the instability reports on Intel Core 13th Gen desktop processors and the analysis to-date has determined that only a small number of instability reports can be connected to the manufacturing issue.

For the Instability issue, we are delivering a microcode patch which addresses exposure to elevated voltages which is a key element of the Instability issue. We are currently validating the microcode patch to ensure the instability issues for 13th/14th Gen are addressed.
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As suspected, it seems there are CPUs with multiple issues!

From the reply, Intel are claiming they have mainly received the degraded CPUs so far (due to the overvolting), which they plan to fix with the microcode update.

Their strategy with the manufacturing problem appears to have been: "wait and see how many we get back", lovely.
 
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Worthy said:
I wasn’t sure if you worked for a supplier or something and were/weren’t getting reports from customers.
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Not directly, I work in the distribution side of it but I don't have any insight into the customer side.

Though what I can say is there isn't an unusually high volume of retail customers returning 13th or 14th gen systems or I'd see the consequences of that.
 
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Tetras said:
GN's leak confirmed by Intel on reddit:



As suspected, it seems there are CPUs with multiple issues!

From the reply, Intel are claiming they have mainly received the degraded CPUs so far (due to the overvolting), which they plan to fix with the microcode update.

Their strategy with the manufacturing problem appears to have been: "wait and see how many we get back", lovely.
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Feels like we aren't getting the whole picture. There is definitely a mixture of people getting CPUs not stable out the box and those who are seeing some CPUs degrading in as little as 2-5 months, not always due to heavy use, and with overlapping symptoms.

I'm guessing on a case by case basis some CPUs will see a small performance reduction as I'm guessing this is where one or some cores are continuing to run, or spiking, high voltages and frequency incompatible with the current thermal situation and may not be stable at just a lower voltage alone - this doesn't necessarily mean unusual levels of those values just the combination (delta) being outside spec, though is probably why some CPUs will see a core or cores running high voltage at times.

Maybe it is as simple as some optimistic binning resulting in some CPUs being unstable out the box in combination with that and some being degraded by it but doesn't sound like the whole story.
 
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Rroff said:
Maybe, could be different batches, different use cases, misunderstanding of the data, etc. there is something going on but no one I know to talk to is seeing anything like the scale Wendell's contacts are reporting and it isn't like tech forums are being overwhelmed by reports of it either from individuals or from people's experiences at work, etc.

I'm not ruling anything in or out at this stage.
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Just as a small comparison about how things are discussed or reported - I have recently found a bug in MSI motherboard bios on AM5. Took me a day or so to pinpoint to specific setting. Very obvious to me thing, visible under Windows with wrong CCD management. I've searched internet - zero reports. I have checked MSI forums - no reports. Posted it there, within a day I got response with videos from MSI engineers testing it, who then confirmed it's actually a widespread bug affecting multiple bios versions and vendors, that AMD itself needs to fix in their code (Agesa I suspect). And nobody has noticed nor reported it at all, it feels. Sometimes issues can be widespread and yet not bothering people enough to properly report it, yet - dead CPU would be sent to rma, but unstable at times, in specific situations, might be put down by many people to just buggy software.
 
Tinek said:
Just as a small comparison about how things are discussed or reported - I have recently found a bug in MSI motherboard bios on AM5. Took me a day or so to pinpoint to specific setting. Very obvious to me thing, visible under Windows with wrong CCD management. I've searched internet - zero reports. I have checked MSI forums - no reports. Posted it there, within a day I got response with videos from MSI engineers testing it, who then confirmed it's actually a widespread bug affecting multiple bios versions and vendors, that AMD itself needs to fix in their code (Agesa I suspect). And nobody has noticed nor reported it at all, it feels. Sometimes issues can be widespread and yet not bothering people enough to properly report it, yet - dead CPU would be sent to rma, but unstable at times, in specific situations, might be put down by many people to just buggy software.
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Wonder how long its going to take to get that sorted out as sounds like no one has reported the issue back to AMD to resolve.
 
Tinek said:
Just as a small comparison about how things are discussed or reported - I have recently found a bug in MSI motherboard bios on AM5. Took me a day or so to pinpoint to specific setting. Very obvious to me thing, visible under Windows with wrong CCD management. I've searched internet - zero reports. I have checked MSI forums - no reports. Posted it there, within a day I got response with videos from MSI engineers testing it, who then confirmed it's actually a widespread bug affecting multiple bios versions and vendors, that AMD itself needs to fix in their code (Agesa I suspect). And nobody has noticed nor reported it at all, it feels. Sometimes issues can be widespread and yet not bothering people enough to properly report it, yet - dead CPU would be sent to rma, but unstable at times, in specific situations, might be put down by many people to just buggy software.
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Got a link to that forum thread?
 
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LtMatt said:
Reason I asked, I have been using the latest 2124 BIOS for the Gene and there is no such issue and that is using the same Ageesa (1.2.0.0a) version as the BIOS you were using.

Might be local to MSI boards perhaps.
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That's what I suspect too and I've seen it just on their new bios, but they claim they were able to replicate it on multiple versions etc. Well, as long as they can fix it. :) Currently I use newest one but with manual curve optimiser and there's no issue present, hence this "workaround" works fine for me.
 
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