Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

[clone]

I've seen a lot of people taking the ryzen over intel because of this problem, if they keep ignoring it then they are fools.

 

[ED209]

I've seen a lot of people taking the ryzen over intel because of this problem, if they keep ignoring it then they are fools.

I agree, I have spent time looking in to the current processors but after all this with Intel its made my decision easier as ill not be touching Intel for awhile.

Just waiting on the new AMD processors to see what I am going to do really.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

The Intel way of sweeping it under the rug will work this week, but give it a few more weeks and there will be no more space under there.
No reasonable person would be spending real money on Intel right now, given the alternatives.

I can be a fan of both companies, but they both suck. Right now, Intel are dealing with a serious issue, poorly, and hoping it disappears. It isn't going to.

 

[jigger]

The Intel way of sweeping it under the rug will work this week, but give it a few more weeks and there will be no more space under there.
No reasonable person would be spending real money on Intel right now, given the alternatives.

I can be a fan of both companies, but they both suck. Right now, Intel are dealing with a serious issue, poorly, and hoping it disappears. It isn't going to.

I think you could have underestimated the size of Intels rug. Tis a silly size rug.

 

[jigger]

How Intel is handling it is not good, but we still don't know the true reasons or true extent of it - everyone has convinced themselves it is a massive scale problem but it is far from proven to be with a lot of potential explanations for what has been seen so far.

I'm also yet to find a 13th or 14th gen CPU actually suffering from these issues in person, at least not so far even if they go on to degrade but some of these CPUs are over a year old and have been run hard.

EDIT: On a related note - I see some people are saying many of the motherboard vendors made changes to loadline stuff in the run up to the 14th gen which causes many 13th and 14th gen to run around 1.5v during gaming for instance when they'd run 1.3-1.35 before.

Just pop an add on a popular market place. I’m sure you will be inundated with offers.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

It's tricky. I think you're probably right, but what we've seen so far implies the failures are heaviest on the high-end chips in heavily used servers, workstations and gaming PCs. That doesn't mean the problem won't spread, but for now, I'd be less nervous at the low end. I bought my parents a laptop with an 13th gen i5 in for Christmas and given they use it for web-browsing and a bit of Office stuff, I'm not particularly worried about it going pop any time soon. I was talking to an IT guy at work last week who reckons that while the failure rate of the latest batch of 13th-gen i7 laptops we rolled out may be very slightly higher than expected, it's only by a small margin and can't be definitively attributed to this problem. We're not a tech company and those laptops are mostly used for web-browsing and Office stuff.

That said, I am glad that the gaming PC I bought earlier in the year was on the red-team side (my first time on that side since an absolute crashy-burny nightmare with an Athlon Thunderbird 900 when I was an undergrad), with a 7950X3D rather than a 14900K. I wouldn't be advising anybody to buy an Intel CPU for a gaming PC right now.

My problem is just how silent they are being about the whole thing. They denied it entirely and blamed the motherboards for the problems and are not slowly drip feeding responses and fixes. The problem just seems to be slowly expanding bit by bit.

Even the chips that don't seem to be affected now may succumb over the next 6 months or a year, we have no way of knowing. Intel really need to step up and start being open if they want to stop this hurting them long term.

In doing this though I think its going to hurt their sales.

Due to not knowing the truth or the extent of the issue people are avoiding their processors when upgrading etc

100%, until everything is out I will be very reluctant to recommend them to anyone even if the product is not strictly on the affected list right now.

 

[ED209]

100%, until everything is out I will be very reluctant to recommend them to anyone even if the product is not strictly on the affected list right now.

Exactly, you do not want to recommend a system for it to have issues as soon as its built and it then come back to you!

Go AMD or wait is the only options atm.

 

[ooStevo]

When you think about how far the i9's boost from there base frequency its not suprising things are going wrong, adding literally 3ghz on top is going some.
Back in the overclocking days, running around 1ghz over base frequency was really good and only a few chips could do that.

I overclocked my Core 2 6300 (@1.86ghz base) to 3.8ghz and it ran fine for a long time. I did reduce it to 3.4ghz after a couple of years. Maybe I got a platinum chip lol. The motherboard actually burned out the traces, the smell was awful lol. Popped said CPU into a new mobo and sure enough 3.6ghz no problem (this was air cooled btw)

 

[Rroff]

I ran a Q6600 at 3.825GHz running 1.6V on water cooling, doing video encoding and other long term full load multi-threaded tasks like compiling Quake 2 and 3 maps had it running like that for 2-3 year or something at high CPU load more often than not - absolutely bullet proof - family member then used that chip for like a decade at stock without a single problem.

 

[jigger]

I ran a Q6600 at 3.825GHz running 1.6V on water cooling, doing video encoding and other long term full load multi-threaded tasks like compiling Quake 2 and 3 maps had it running like that for 2-3 year or something at high CPU load more often than not - absolutely bullet proof - family member then used that chip for like a decade at stock without a single problem.

1.6v is questionable especially for 3.8ghz, but that chip was built on a very robust 65nm process with double or triple masking and 100~ watt TDP.

 

[TrixP10]

Intel plans to cut thousands of jobs to finance a recovery and cope with eroding market share,

https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel-plans-cut-thousands-jobs-finance-recovery-bloomberg-news-reports-2024-07-30/

 

[Rroff]

1.6v is questionable especially for 3.8ghz, but that chip was built on a very robust 65nm process with double or triple masking and 100~ watt TDP.

I ended up with an extra Q6600 so was like **** it stuck it on the max entry in the voltage table, had it running above 3.825 for a bit but it was using a lot more power without any real extra performance. Didn't expect it to last frankly.

 

[Drumroll]

Older processors were more “robust”.
Now they leave the factory juiced up, most of the time way over than what is needed, leaving very little, if any, margin for overclocking.
I owned a 2500K, later a 3700K and last was a 12700K. The 2500L and the 3700K was just a case of increasing voltage and multiplier and voila. Fine tuning would bet even more gains, but the overclock potential was brutal. The 12700K I ditched very fast. Performance out of the box was good, but performance deteriorated fast once the CPU started bending. Mounting frame helped a bit but the thermals wasn’t great for what I need my PC. Too much hassle for benefits I didn’t use. Got the 7800x3D and don’t see myself changing it any time soon.
Motherboard manufactures have been overvolting CPUs for a long time, true, but not that Intel or AMD try to stop it. Just remember the RAM speeds that simply activating a XMP profile is considered an overclock and would void the CPU warranty (I believe that isn’t the case anymore).

 

[Nevakonaza]

Absolute Shambles how Intel are handeling this (or not),what's even more frustrating is that for current users of 13/14th gen like myself who hasn't experienced any issues as of yet,does this mean our CPUs are potentially ticking time bombs?
Also.to note this will now effect resale values , who's going to want to buy these when we decide to upgrade...not good intel not good!

 

[Drumroll]

Absolute Shambles how Intel are handeling this (or not),what's even more frustrating is that for current users of 13/14th gen like myself who hasn't experienced any issues as of yet,does this mean our CPUs are potentially ticking time bombs?
Also.to note this will now effect resale values , who's going to want to buy these when we decide to upgrade...not good intel not good!

Valid point.
Even if just a small portion is affected, bad news makes headlines. Selling it now, any buyer will think your CPU is damaged. Selling in the future, either the CPU develop an issue or the reputation for 13th and 14th gen will be damaged and as every potential CPU with issues would’ve been flagged and the issue made public, both generations would be pretty much blacklisted by the market.
Updates caping the performance isn’t acceptable either.
All this approach of CPUs fine to boost to 95C, 100C from both Intel and AMD was far fetched. AMD seems to be aiming for more reasonable operating temperature for the Ryzen 9000 series. Let’s hope.

 

[Grim5]

Older processors were more “robust”.
Now they leave the factory juiced up, most of the time way over than what is needed, leaving very little, if any, margin for overclocking.
I owned a 2500K, later a 3700K and last was a 12700K. The 2500L and the 3700K was just a case of increasing voltage and multiplier and voila. Fine tuning would bet even more gains, but the overclock potential was brutal. The 12700K I ditched very fast. Performance out of the box was good, but performance deteriorated fast once the CPU started bending. Mounting frame helped a bit but the thermals wasn’t great for what I need my PC. Too much hassle for benefits I didn’t use. Got the 7800x3D and don’t see myself changing it any time soon.
Motherboard manufactures have been overvolting CPUs for a long time, true, but not that Intel or AMD try to stop it. Just remember the RAM speeds that simply activating a XMP profile is considered an overclock and would void the CPU warranty (I believe that isn’t the case anymore).

2700k's are still going strong today. Most people have bought new CPUs, but for those who still have 2700k machines, they are running well.
Goodluck seeing 14900k's still running in 12 years

 

[Nevakonaza]

Valid point.
Even if just a small portion is affected, bad news makes headlines. Selling it now, any buyer will think your CPU is damaged. Selling in the future, either the CPU develop an issue or the reputation for 13th and 14th gen will be damaged and as every potential CPU with issues would’ve been flagged and the issue made public, both generations would be pretty much blacklisted by the market.
Updates caping the performance isn’t acceptable either.
All this approach of CPUs fine to boost to 95C, 100C from both Intel and AMD was far fetched. AMD seems to be aiming for more reasonable operating temperature for the Ryzen 9000 series. Let’s hope.

Yeah absolutely, I've not had any issues with my 14700K as of yet it's been running just fine but like mentioned people will most likely avoid buying them second hand down the line.

I don't think AMD are heroes either tho,both intel and AMD and that busy with trying to out-do one another that they're literally throwing out "new" CPUs unnecessarily every year and let's be honest since 11th gen intel to the modern 14th gen do we REALLY see that huge of a performance uplift? I personally can't see it!
Although my 14700k is decent,it's not as noticeable of a performance boost from my previous 11700k when it comes to gaming.
I should have just stuck with the 11700k.

I think where AMD do disserve the brownie points is on power saving and lower tdps.
Intel on the other hand,not so much effort lol.

 

[TrixP10]

Yeah absolutely, I've not had any issues with my 14700K as of yet it's been running just fine but like mentioned people will most likely avoid buying them second hand down the line.

I don't think AMD are heroes either tho,both intel and AMD and that busy with trying to out-do one another that they're literally throwing out "new" CPUs unnecessarily every year and let's be honest since 11th gen intel to the modern 14th gen do we REALLY see that huge of a performance uplift? I personally can't see it!
Although my 14700k is decent,it's not as noticeable of a performance boost from my previous 11700k when it comes to gaming.
I should have just stuck with the 11700k.

I think where AMD do disserve the brownie points is on power saving and lower tdps.
Intel on the other hand,not so much effort lol.

Intel playing catch up, what else could they do?

 

[KompuKare]

2700k's are still going strong today. Most people have bought new CPUs, but for those who still have 2700k machines, they are running well.
Goodluck seeing 14900k's still running in 12 years

On an other forum sometime keeps going on that all silicon degrades in a whatsbouterism. Which factually may be true but there's a huge order of difference between a CPU lasting 40+ years (early 80s computers which still work to this day), 20+ years (most CPUs from the 90s and 00s), and lasting a few years or less like these Raptor Lake CPUs.

Silicon from a tier-1 manufacturer should last decades not years; old systems usually die when the motherboard or PSU dies.

Intel playing catch up, what else could they do?

I guess the good news is that - at least for a few years - no chip vendor will now try "let's clock things to the edge of stability [or beyond]" thing.

 

[TrixP10]

On an other forum sometime keeps going on that all silicon degrades in a whatsbouterism. Which factually may be true but there's a huge order of difference between a CPU lasting 40+ years (early 80s computers which still work to this day), 20+ years (most CPUs from the 90s and 00s), and lasting a few years or less like these Raptor Lake CPUs.

Silicon from a tier-1 manufacturer should last decades not years; old systems usually die when the motherboard or PSU dies.



I guess the good news is that - at least for a few years - no chip vendor will now try "let's clock things to the edge of stability [or beyond]" thing.

Hopefully