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Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

He's actually by far and a long way the lowest paid of the three ^^^^

Aretak said:
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Is anyone else also struggling to keep up with all of this? Steve does his best to deconstruct it all but wow...

  • Intel ignored Steve's line of questioning but also publicly answered those questions trough statements they made in such a way to make themselves look in the best light and to get ahead of Steve reporting on that line of questioning.
  • An Intel Reddit Forum Moderator, namely someone who is also a Toms Hardware reviewer deleted a post made by one of Intel customers who had lost hundreds of thousands of dollars due to this issue, because it was "off Topic" while at the same time allowing a sycophantic anti AMD post. A Toms Hardware Reviewer, Albert Thomas, that's Toms Hardware no longer to be trusted...
  • Intel blocking people with complaints about to on Twitter, or X if you like.
  • They have known about this for 2 years and in that time have push about 2 dozen microcode 'fixes' through Windows update, did even know you could do that. of course all the while remaining completely silent on it.
  • Intel have been giving Motherboard vendors confusing and contradictory messaging about default power states, citing both 125 watts and 253 watts as the standard profile base line because they wanted plausible deniability from telling them to juice the CPU's for performance. Intel have tried to blame the motherboard vendors over and over again.
  • Intel have been ninja editing its public statements after journalists commented on them.

The ring bus and cores share the same voltage rail, so if the cores require 1.5v its more than the ring bus can handle.
The CPU is still pumping high voltage in to the cores to maintain high boost even at high temperatures, i actually noted that somewhere in one of these posts, citing watching Jaz2Cents running R23 with the cores pulling 1.5v at 80+c, again that is mental.... when my Ryzen gets hot it drops the voltage and the clocks, if i ever saw 1.5v at anything over 59c i would freakout, you only need to be a certified enthusiast to know high voltages at high temperatures is a very bad idea. You only need to understand why sub-zero temperatures allows you to pump a CPU with volts that at room temperature would kill it instantly! My CPU is now 4 years old, gets used at very high loads a lot and has so far as i can tell ZERO degradation. Because AMD haven't been mindbogglingly reckless with it just to pump the bar charts. Oh yes i went there....
Laptop's are affect too.

All the while they have sold these things and continue to sell these things.

This is the biggest cacophony of mess i think Steve has ever reported on, its extremely shady, vicious damage control after clearly pushing these things too far as try and not let AMD have a clear and obvious win, they did this with products that they then sold to us and continued to for 2 years of knowing about the issue, even now they are seemingly of the same mindset deludedly trying to find a way to make it ok.
 
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Rroff said:
Obviously this whole issue puts a shadow over the 14700K, future upgrade potential is vague and not the most optimistic but that is a whole another topic really as it doesn't look like AMD is exactly pulling out the stops on their side as things stand - 9000 series look like iterative updates which Intel may reflect with Bartlett CPUs - though that might change further down the line both platforms will be outdated by that point. I also find the situation with PCI-e 5.0 provisioning pretty woeful.

But that aside with the 14700K you've got a CPU in the price tier of the 7800X3D but hangs with the 7950X(3D) chips for application performance and for higher resolution, higher settings gaming is generally within margin of error of the X3D chips for performance despite their lead at 1080p and below. When you look at whole system power consumption it is rarely more than 100 watt higher and against the 7950X(3D) chips often not much more than 30 watt in it (despite the headlines due to the difference in power consumption of the CPUs themselves). Likewise it puts in a fairly good showing against the 14900K while being considerably cheaper and usually quite a bit lower power use/heat.

People get so carried away with the headlines on these chips they don't take a closer look at the 14700.

EDIT: Also the way things are looking with these mitigations the 14900K is basically going to turn into a glorified 14700 after performance decreases :s while most 14700s probably won't really lose out.
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You really suggesting if doing a new build to go intel ? With so much uncertainty and being dead platform that's very poor advice imo , you may have 14700k that's golden sample who knows why would anyone take the risk right now ? And question any crash even if it's unrelated, Intel's handling of this has been disgraceful

And with zen 5 round the corner which isn't on a dead platform, If I needed the multi thread for applications I'd rather go with 7950x3d over the 14700k pay the extra
 
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As of yesterday cancelled another Intel based system production run, and alternates are being explored, these were going to be several hundred systems from 13500's, up to 14900's and everything in between. The decision was made based on the lack of clarity from Intel about how they'd support he CPU's and platforms affected if they ever actually admit fault. This again is a big decision from the client as it is going to delay delivery from Q3 to probably Q4 '24/Q1 '25 which they are willing to accept rather than risk having unstable systems with no proper support.

I'm staggered that at this point people are still trying to defend Intel and find excuses why it is OK, perhaps if you have one computer it doesn't matter and you are engaged in confirmation bias, and defending a purchase, but this has reached a point where Intel are now beyond a joke, and it is a frankly massive issue.
 
Journey said:
As of yesterday cancelled another Intel based system production run, and alternates are being explored, these were going to be several hundred systems from 13500's, up to 14900's and everything in between. The decision was made based on the lack of clarity from Intel about how they'd support he CPU's and platforms affected if they ever actually admit fault. This again is a big decision from the client as it is going to delay delivery from Q3 to probably Q4 '24/Q1 '25 which they are willing to accept rather than risk having unstable systems with no proper support.

I'm staggered that at this point people are still trying to defend Intel and find excuses why it is OK, perhaps if you have one computer it doesn't matter and you are engaged in confirmation bias, and defending a purchase, but this has reached a point where Intel are now beyond a joke, and it is a frankly massive issue.
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I'm watching the stock fairly closely, gotta be almost buy time, soon they will be paying me to buy shares!!
 
humbug said:
He's actually by far and a long way the lowest paid of the three ^^^^


Is anyone else also struggling to keep up with all of this? Steve does his best to deconstruct it all but wow...

  • Intel ignored Steve's line of questioning but also publicly answered those questions trough statements they made in such a way to make themselves look in the best light and to get ahead of Steve reporting on that line of questioning.
  • An Intel Reddit Forum Moderator, namely someone who is also a Toms Hardware reviewer deleted a post made by one of Intel customers who had lost hundreds of thousands of dollars due to this issue, because it was "off Topic" while at the same time allowing a sycophantic anti AMD post. A Toms Hardware Reviewer, Albert Thomas, that's Toms Hardware no longer to be trusted...
  • Intel blocking people with complaints about to on Twitter, or X if you like.
  • They have known about this for 2 years and in that time have push about 2 dozen microcode 'fixes' through Windows update, did even know you could do that. of course all the while remaining completely silent on it.
  • Intel have been giving Motherboard vendors confusing and contradictory messaging about default power states, citing both 125 watts and 253 watts as the standard profile base line because they wanted plausible deniability from telling them to juice the CPU's for performance. Intel have tried to blame the motherboard vendors over and over again.
  • Intel have been ninja editing its public statements after journalists commented on them.

The ring bus and cores share the same voltage rail, so if the cores require 1.5v its more than the ring bus can handle.
The CPU is still pumping high voltage in to the cores to maintain high boost even at high temperatures, i actually noted that somewhere in one of these posts, citing watching Jaz2Cents running R23 with the cores pulling 1.5v at 80+c, again that is mental.... when my Ryzen gets hot it drops the voltage and the clocks, if i ever saw 1.5v at anything over 59c i would freakout, you only need to be a certified enthusiast to know high voltages at high temperatures is a very bad idea. You only need to understand why sub-zero temperatures allows you to pump a CPU with volts that at room temperature would kill it instantly! My CPU is now 4 years old, gets used at very high loads a lot and has so far as i can tell ZERO degradation. Because AMD haven't been mindbogglingly reckless with it just to pump the bar charts. Oh yes i went there....
Laptop's are affect too.

All the while they have sold these things and continue to sell these things.

This is the biggest cacophony of mess i think Steve has ever reported on, its extremely shady, vicious damage control after clearly pushing these things too far as try and not let AMD have a clear and obvious win, they did this with products that they then sold to us and continued to for 2 years of knowing about the issue, even now they are seemingly of the same mindset deludedly trying to find a way to make it ok.
Click to expand...


The Intel reddit forum is nuts, you can't say anything negative, I was banned for saying one negative thing about Intel
 
The way intel has handled this is very anti consumer. They still have no clear information on which CPU’s are impacted via serials or are refusing to share this. All the onus is on the individual to go through a series of steps and then make some determination on what to do. It’s also an issue that can present itself down the road so this isn’t even a past or point in time issue you can have confidence in moving beyond.

The *only* reasonable course is a voluntary recall. A consumer should, without question, be given the choice to have their cpu replaced via a simple portal where you put your SN in and initiate a swap.
 
uscool said:
You really suggesting if doing a new build to go intel ? With so much uncertainty and being dead platform that's very poor advice imo , you may have 14700k that's golden sample who knows why would anyone take the risk right now ? And question any crash even if it's unrelated, Intel's handling of this has been disgraceful

And with zen 5 round the corner which isn't on a dead platform, If I needed the multi thread for applications I'd rather go with 7950x3d over the 14700k pay the extra
Click to expand...

Did you actually read what I posted?
 
Rroff said:
Did you actually read what I posted?
Click to expand...
yeah you said
People get so carried away with the headlines on these chips they don't take a closer look at the 14700 do you not understand why people would not consider intel at all right now ? . and giving reasons why its better alternative to the AMD options

9000 series look like iterative updates which Intel may reflect with Bartlett CPUs - though that might change further down the line both platforms will be outdated by that point

by the time Bartlett is out AMD will likely be on zen 6 and possibly on AM5, I cant see Bartlett being anything special

that tells me you are trying to sell intel to me even with all this going on ? i understand that you own one and probably want to defend it
 
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uscool said:
yeah you said
People get so carried away with the headlines on these chips they don't take a closer look at the 14700. and given reasons why its better alternative to the AMD options

9000 series look like iterative updates which Intel may reflect with Bartlett CPUs - though that might change further down the line both platforms will be outdated by that point

by the time Bartlett is out AMD will likely be on zen 6 and possibly on AM5

that tells me you are trying to sell intel to me even with all this going on ? i understand that you own one and probably want to defend it
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone in both my posts I mentioned these issues hanging over it in both that post and the one before it.
 
uscool said:
yeah you said
People get so carried away with the headlines on these chips they don't take a closer look at the 14700 do you not understand why people would not consider intel at all right now ? . and giving reasons why its better alternative to the AMD options

9000 series look like iterative updates which Intel may reflect with Bartlett CPUs - though that might change further down the line both platforms will be outdated by that point

by the time Bartlett is out AMD will likely be on zen 6 and possibly on AM5

that tells me you are trying to sell intel to me even with all this going on ? i understand that you own one and probably want to defend it
Click to expand...

That's not how I read it... The jist for me was it would be a decent alternative in all areas if it wasn't fundamentally broken. Which I actually think is a fair assesment.
 
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