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Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

MyBrainz said:
Setting up a streaming PC is one, if not the biggest ball ache for a streamer and it isnt the actual streaming of the video game, its the audio thats the main problem of getting right along with setting up microphone. Then there is using more electric with another PC. Windows updates like to break things too. These days just buy a 4080/4090 for a single PC setup.. I can stream 1440p upscaled to Youtube with my 3060Ti with 25MB bitrate and it looks great.

I know x264 can look damn good too but the majority of 2 PC setup streamers are still using NVENC on the stream PC which to me just says they're still doing it wrong. I'd be using at least a 5950X in that thing with x264.

With AV1/HEVC already on YT and coming to Twitch soon, single PC setup is the way to go for the majority of streamers. those needing a stream PC should be for a more pro streamer that do way more than just stream a game. I'm talking creating Youtube content from their Twitch stream without all the alerts, sponsor logo's etc all over it.

Its so easy to just stream these days, I've tested doing Twitch (1080p) Youtube (1440p) and Kick (1080p) all at the same time on my sig setup.. it works fine.

Perfect setup for an average streamer should be any 8 Core+ Ryzen X3D with at least a 4070Ti GPU and they're good to go.
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I use an older laptop as a second machine for streaming - I solved the audio side with a very cheap ezcap216 and a basic mixer (there are some considerations for avoiding picking up noise). There are some complications in getting everything synced with the various buffer lengths involved but mostly I've been able to drop buffers to minimums without issue. (You can also use stuff like Virtual Audio Cable, etc. but I generally found that more complicated and worse results).

Windows updates are an absolute pain in the rear when it comes to streaming :( I have nothing but utter loathing for anyone involved in the development of Windows (Windows Update Blocker is a godsend in that respect long may it continue).

Comparing setups side by side - while 8 core / 16 thread CPUs can cope up to a point even with non-trivial streaming, having more cores than that can still produce more ideal results especially if you've got other companion applications running and/or want to just leave other software running in the background, etc.
 
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Rroff said:
Black Myth: Wukong Benchmark Tool runs on my 14700K, so far so good - supposedly one of the first signs of failure when it can't run that.
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Benchmark Tool doesnt even load up for me unless I run it in Compatibility Mode and thats on a 5800X3D/3060Ti combo lol

Im not on the latest Game Ready driver (NSD 560.70), getting average 30fps on High Setting/Medium RT with DLSS enabled at 1080p :D
 
MyBrainz said:
Benchmark Tool doesnt even load up for me unless I run it in Compatibility Mode and thats on a 5800X3D/3060Ti combo lol

Im not on the latest Game Ready driver (NSD 560.70), getting average 30fps on High Setting/Medium RT with DLSS enabled at 1080p :D
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4080 Super powers through it, some nice attention to detail in the graphics, shame the game itself doesn't interest me.
 
Looks like they are going to try ignore this until October when it is overshadowed by the release of newer CPU's, sad really for the consumers who have bought these, extending a warranty isn't what I call an answer.

Perhaps the people doing reviews on release will preface them with the lack of clarity surrounding this debacle, and make people think twice before committing their money to something that might be a total lemon, I mean bad marketing is one thing, but faulty product(s) isn't even a discussion.
 
There’s an interesting thread on their Reddit right now, with employees talking about the mood around their offices at the moment. It’s sounding like Intel will be losing most of its talent. Can’t see anything going wrong with that… :|

I’m pretty sure any good reviewers (so, only a few) will have extreme monitoring of voltages, when reviewing the next CPUs.
I hope they are good. If they are rubbish, then Intel is finished for a good few years.
 
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I've seen people saying they wouldn't mind a UE5 stability checking tool. And for that presumably the amount of shaders matter. Mo idea how hard that would be - could be as simple as take the files with the shaders and create 100s of copies with a few parameters changed each time.

I doubt there's one workload which is the perfect stability tool anyhow, but UE5 one could fill a niche.

I still believe that Intel probably have internal tools by now but do not want to release them as they have no intention of making RMAs easy.
Emlyn_Dewar said:
I’m pretty sure any good reviewers (so, only a few) will have extreme monitoring of voltages, when reviewing the next CPUs.
I hope they are good. If they are rubbish, then Intel is finished for a good few years.
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Preliminary ARL (Arrow Lake) results look okay or at least okayish - so far mainly GB and then GB5 which is a rather poor benchmark but likes to post the results so perfect for leaking what OEMs are trying out.

Not Conroe 2.0 like some people on other forums are saying, but then I have recently seen a lot of what look like new shareholders - when governments are writing $billions of corporate welfare checks buying made some sense, I guess - talking up Arrow Lake, Intel 18A nodes etc. The nodes in particular have been hyped up probably since 14nm so Intel have a lot to make up before anyone trusts their words on foundry.

The good news with ARL is that is not dependent on Intel's internal foundry. About the only recent Intel cap-ex which seems to have paid up is their big investment in advanced packaging.

The P cores in ARL are still bloated, but the new E cores - Skymont - seem impressive although they are now about the size of Zen 5C. The P core lose SMT so while Skymont's huge uplift should help with MT but there will continue to be workloads which do not like they hybrid architecture at all.

That Reddit thread paints a very poor picture of Intel though.
 
SQL Server 2016 realty hates those E cores on my Dell Precision work laptop though. While we are not ready to upgrade to 2022 I did try that too and it was the same. That Alder Lake 2P 8E mobile chip was at least 3 times slower at some complex query than the old Haswell Thinkpad T540p 2C/4T one. Used a lot more power too so perf/watt is a lot worse than that. Puny little 2242 NVMe on the Dell is slow by NVMe standards but the old ThinkPad was plain SATA.

Was only slightly involved in spec'ing that Dell - and was mainly concerned that it had to be able to drive two 1440P screens. Don't recall if there better CPU options than just 2P cores though.

With the E cores turned off it was only slightly slower than the old Haswell but I never tried E cores off with SQL 2022. It is not a common query just something complex I was working on when the new laptops came in - and which I had timed as it was slow (lots of aggregations of numbers stored as varchars each of which needed the ISNUMERIC function multiple times). Might just have been bad luck that t for some reason that function is slow on later Intel CPUs - which might make some niche case like crypto in a CPU without some dedicated instructions. Not a controlled comparison either with Win10 Vs Win11 in the mix, TPM, BitLocker etc., but that turning off E cores made a huge difference rules most of that out IMO.

Certainly a niche use case but a pretty mainstream program. Aside from that workload it has been okay - not blazingly fast but no noticeable regression - but that the old ThinkPad T540P got by with a 65W PSU while this new Dell 3570 power throttles without the 90W supply was surprising consider the Alder Lake is supposedly a 15W "U" CPU while the old Haswell was 37W.
 
Is your database on a server/cloud? I recently switched dell laptops and there is 4 generations between them and I found no change in SQL speeds - however the databases are on servers and some in the cloud so perhaps the server/network is the bottleneck
 
Grim5 said:
Is your database on a server/cloud? I recently switched dell laptops and there is 4 generations between them and I found no change in SQL speeds - however the databases are on servers and some in the cloud so perhaps the server/network is the bottleneck
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Lol whut?

If the SQL server is running the queries and hosting the database you aren't going to any difference. :cry:
 
Journey said:
Lol whut?

If the SQL server is running the queries and hosting the database you aren't going to any difference. :cry:
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Indeed. On the dev machines we use (an anonymised) version of prod hosted locally. Prod is still on SQL 2016 but that should change soon(ish) - although when trying 2022 locally it didn't improve things.

The query in question is the only one I have comparative timings for but it's no fluke as I was able to keep the old laptop around for a good while. It is not a production query just a QA thing comparing data from the main database to see where something we have in Azure matches what is there or whether we have update and resync the two (we do).
Unsure what the exact issue is with MS SQL and the new Alder Lake laptop but the biggest clue was that turning off E cores in the BIOS got a time off around 10 mins (old Haswell was around 7 minutes, new Alder Lake laptop is normally around 30 minutes).

Mostly just posting this to counter the claim that E cores are some magic MT workhorse which just work. Yes plenty of programs which work really well with them but there are still exceptions.

Intel hybrid is still new and despite them copying ARM's big.LITTLE, Intel's motivation was not the same. Sure both try to balance power and die size but in ARM's case power was the main thing, in Intel's case area was the main thing as the P cores were so bloated - seems the P core team has already spent or even overspent all the transistors that Intel's process people had promised since 14nm.
 
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Vince said:
you see....



Good times... Making the dolla baby!!! Massive 3.22% gains lol. Its not crowdstike / QCOM gains but it's intel baby and they will bounce back!
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:D You didn't invest did you?

vhnLyr5.jpeg


In all seriousness Intel could bounce back, if you think there is a chance now is the time, but its a gamble, Intel haven't hit rock bottom yet, its not like they are trading at $1.50 because there is no one left holding any stock, as AMD was in 2016.

These are the people who matter most, and its not looking good.


These people are starting to wonder if Intel will even be around in 5 years....
 
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KompuKare said:
Mostly just posting this to counter the claim that E cores are some magic MT workhorse which just work. Yes plenty of programs which work really well with them but there are still exceptions.

Intel hybrid is still new and despite them copying ARM's big.LITTLE, Intel's motivation was not the same. Sure both try to balance power and die size but in ARM's case power was the main thing, in Intel's case area was the main thing as the P cores were so bloated - seems the P core team has already spent or even overspent all the transistors that Intel's process people had promised since 14nm.
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I don't do a lot with SQL - but got a couple of game dedicated servers (City of Heroes for one) which use it and not seeing any issues on those with E cores.
 
well. ill be taking the opp. to get an intel pc 'before they're gone'.
lordy. a world that is only amd. no thanks.
===
there are various articles on actual failure rates:
www.guru3d.com

Intel Core 13th and 14th Generation Processors: Failure Rates Compared to AMD Ryzen 5000/7000 Series

Puget Systems, a high-performance custom computer manufacturer, released a report on the failure rates of Intel and AMD processors, revealing some unexpected findings.
www.guru3d.com www.guru3d.com
personally, Ive tried out a more recent amd platform. B450/2400G . the 2400G was glitchy. i replaced with a 5600G...and no troubles with that one. although the b450 motherboard died after 6 years (which frankly isnt that unreasonable a timeframe)
intel cpu's yeh. basically ive had no troubles with them. period. im fully aware as probably most are by now about the higher voltages/heat problems of the 13th gen refresh ala raptor lake. That being said, there are plenty of workarounds to keep the power hungry cpu's within safe thermal limits...thanks especially to peeps like Buildzoid for example.
 
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Chud_Jenny said:
Nice article covering the bigger Intel picture:
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Keeping up with the foundry game is incredibly expensive, its much more than Intel on its own can afford, they can't fund keeping up with the best from using them to make their own chips, especially given that they are loosing share in that market at pace.

What Intel need is real customers for its fabs. None of the other big 4, Apple, Nvidia, AMD, Qualcomm are going to use Intel fabs while Intel are competing with them, Intel are trying to have their cake and a slice of everyone else's, not going to work, Intel are either a fab or they are fabless.
 
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