Intel to launch 6 core Coffee Lake-S CPUs & Z370 chipset 5 October 2017

[Silent_Scone]

Pretty much what I was saying. Post it up I'm sure many will find it interesting.

You were to an extent, but you were also hanging onto the 1.5%. It's all down to the methodology and what you're looking for. I can state categorically that in some titles the gains are higher than this. Just remember that we're not just talking about averages here.

 

[southernorth]

You were to an extent, but you were also hanging onto the 1.5%. It's all down to the methodology and what you're looking for. I can state categorically that in some titles the gains are higher than this. Just remember that we're not just talking about averages here.

Very game dependent, but if for example you played a lot of Witcher 3 (example below) there are huge gains to be made. I guess that's the problem with FPS averages acrross multiple games; you might never play the games where the difference is minor, and only play the games which benefit greatly.

https://youtu.be/9f5JQrnOwTE?t=14m10s

 

[Doobedoo]

You were to an extent, but you were also hanging onto the 1.5%. It's all down to the methodology and what you're looking for. I can state categorically that in some titles the gains are higher than this. Just remember that we're not just talking about averages here.

Sorry but we were, that is what the slides represent. We have already been over this 1.5 was just the average I'm not quite sure what is wrong with that?

If you want to show your own set of results then please do otherwise I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[Doobedoo]

Very game dependent, but if for example you played a lot of Witcher 3 there are huge gains to be made. I guess that's the problem with FPS averages acrross multiple games; you might never play the games where the difference is minor and only play games which benefit greatly.

An average represent and correlates across a range of different games, it gives a broader picture. If you only want results on one game then just look at results for that one game. I'm not sure what is wrong with that. It's common sense really.

 

[southernorth]

 

[Silent_Scone]

Sorry but we were, that is what the slides represent. We have already been over this 1.5 was just the average I'm not quite sure what is wrong with that?

If you want to show your own set of results then please do otherwise I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make.

Average of what? I'm talking about frame rates. If you think average frame rate is the only metric worth looking at, then I'm not sure what to tell you...

Although to throw a spanner in the works, someone posted these results in one of my threads on OCN. Overclocking the mesh also shows gains in tandem.
https://imgur.com/a/XU6na#wnroaYm

 

[Doobedoo]

Average of what? I'm talking about frame rates. If you think average frame rate is the only metric worth looking at, then I'm not sure what to tell you...

Although to throw a spanner in the works, someone posted these results in one of my threads on OCN.

https://imgur.com/a/XU6na#wnroaYm

You're making more of this than you need too. I posted a chart that showed an average fps representation across multiple games and multiple memory speeds settings. Somehow you have taken that as me saying this is all that matters.

All I was saying is what the benchmarks were showing that from 2666-4000 the average gaming fps difference is about 1.5%, not the highest possible just the average. They weren't showing skylake x they were showing coffeelake and ryzen.

Like I said if you want to produce your own set of figures then feel free to post them up, but as of yet I'm not sure what it is I said that is wrong. If people want to buy the fastest possible ram sticks for single figure fps increases then go ahead.

 

[Confuzz]

When i bought my pc parts for my first build ram was one of the areas i decided to save on as prices are a bit crazy at the time (still are) so i got a the cheapest i could find a set of t force vulcan 3000 mhz. Seems a bit silly now as i have since spent quite a lot upgraded to a 1080ti and coffee lake. i was unaware at the time how important low timings were as i read somewhere that speed was more important i sort of regret that now as the timings are 16 18 18 36 and it will only boot set at 2933mhz. I did play about with the timings in the bios but the lowest i could get was 15 15 15 35 but at 2666mhz which when doing the maths actually gives me a slower speed. I would love to know how many fps i would gain from a set speed of 2666 or higher with 14 ram latency timings. I suspect the gains would probably not be that much its just finding the information is so difficult.

 

[Spudgun]

When i bought my pc parts for my first build ram was one of the areas i decided to save on as prices are a bit crazy at the time (still are) so i got a the cheapest i could find a set of t force vulcan 3000 mhz. Seems a bit silly now as i have since spent quite a lot upgraded to a 1080ti and coffee lake. i was unaware at the time how important low timings were as i read somewhere that speed was more important i sort of regret that now as the timings are 16 18 18 36 and it will only boot set at 2933mhz. I did play about with the timings in the bios but the lowest i could get was 15 15 15 35 but at 2666mhz which when doing the maths actually gives me a slower speed. I would love to know how many fps i would gain from a set speed of 2666 or higher with 14 ram latency timings. I suspect the gains would probably not be that much its just finding the information is so difficult.

The answer to your question was only 2 pages back! - https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews...e_Lake_Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/

 

[Doobedoo]

When i bought my pc parts for my first build ram was one of the areas i decided to save on as prices are a bit crazy at the time (still are) so i got a the cheapest i could find a set of t force vulcan 3000 mhz. Seems a bit silly now as i have since spent quite a lot upgraded to a 1080ti and coffee lake. i was unaware at the time how important low timings were as i read somewhere that speed was more important i sort of regret that now as the timings are 16 18 18 36 and it will only boot set at 2933mhz. I did play about with the timings in the bios but the lowest i could get was 15 15 15 35 but at 2666mhz which when doing the maths actually gives me a slower speed. I would love to know how many fps i would gain from a set speed of 2666 or higher with 14 ram latency timings. I suspect the gains would probably not be that much its just finding the information is so difficult.

For this article, we completed nearly 500 individual benchmark runs to paint a more complete picture on the DDR memory situation with Coffee Lake. We had no problems reaching our targets thanks to Gigabyte's fine Z370 Ultra Gaming and G.SKILL's outstanding Trident-Z memory. First of all, the scores are sometimes very close together, within the margin of error. That explains why some results appear to be out of place in terms of their position in a very narrow performance band. This is as expected and can't be avoided when doing testing on a system like Windows 10, with background processes active and using a timer resolution in the order of 30 ms.

Also, in case you aren't aware of it yet: Memory timings are expressed as cycles relative to the clock frequency (not absolute time). For example, "CL12" at DDR4-2666 means "9 nanoseconds". Whereas on DDR4-3200 the same CL12 is just 8 nanoseconds - the actual time gets shorter, which might be too quick for the memory chips. That's why the vendors' rated latencies increase as memory speed increases. To achieve the same 9 nanoseconds absolute time you'd have to use CL15 on DDR4-3200 (9.38 ns).

The minimum memory frequency we would recommend for a high-end Coffee Lake system is 2666 MHz. Everything below that seems to have relatively large performance effects. The cheapest DDR4 memory runs at roughly $8 per GB (2133 MHz, CL15). While cheap, that is not the way to go. Rather, get a 2666 MHz kit with CL15, or better CL14. These should be in the range of $9 per GB, which makes for an extra $15 (for 16 GB) that is well spent.

If you have a bit more money to invest, the next good option is 3200 MHz memory, with CL14 or CL15. 3200 MHz CL16 is roughly equal to 3000 MHz CL14 in speed, so consider that option too. On AMD Ryzen processors the InfinityFabric (which links the cores) is clocked at 0.5X DRAM frequency, so you had to prioritize memory frequency over latency. Coffee Lake, on the other hand, also sees good gains from improved timings, which often makes it more sensible to buy lower latency memory than to go for the highest clock speed you can find.

Last but not least, the question of 1T vs. 2T seems to be settled with measurable gains in the ~0.5% range when averaged, which are really small and in my opinion not worth the trouble of paying a lot of extra for, or fiddling with BIOS options for hours just to go from 2T to 1T.

On the topic of super-high-speed memory kits, the gains here are limited, too, often below 1%. So spending all that money on a faster graphics card instead should be more useful, at least if you are a gamer. Modders should also sign up for higher-speed memory which often come with better visuals and lighting options, ie. RGB, etc. Should you be a competitive overclocker, then every little bit of performance matters and money should be no object.

 

[Confuzz]

Yeah i read that but i couldnt figure out where my ram would rank on the list as its 2933mhz 16 18 18 36 2t which isnt listed but looking again at the graph with a clear head i would guess its about 97 % so about 4% less than 3200mhz 14 14 34 2t which seems to be the sweet spot. Unless im missing something it seems upgrading my ram wouldnt make much sense at the moment. Hopefully there will be some more testing done on this by other sites soon to compare.

 

[Silent_Scone]

You're making more of this than you need too. I posted a chart that showed an average fps representation across multiple games and multiple memory speeds settings. Somehow you have taken that as me saying this is all that matters.

All I was saying is what the benchmarks were showing that from 2666-4000 the average gaming fps difference is about 1.5%, not the highest possible just the average. They weren't showing skylake x they were showing coffeelake and ryzen.

Like I said if you want to produce your own set of figures then feel free to post them up, but as of yet I'm not sure what it is I said that is wrong. If people want to buy the fastest possible ram sticks for single figure fps increases then go ahead.

There are averages in the link I gave you over a variety of games, too. And the results are all higher than 1.5% in the titles used. Believe me, I'm not making anything more of it than I need to. I'm giving you another example because you're insistent on playing graph wars.
If you aren't interested in making your own conclusion from your own testing whilst insisting that I do my own, that makes you a hypocrite. I've already said I will do some testing. This needs to include minimums and frame time variance as these are intrinsically related.

 

[Confuzz]

[QUOTE I've already said I will do some testing. This needs to include minimums and frame time variance as these are intrinsically related.

I will be very interested in your findings as i think it is important to see how much effect ram speed and timings have on coffee lake

 

[Doobedoo]

There are averages in the link I gave you over a variety of games, too. And the results are all higher than 1.5% in the titles used. Believe me, I'm not making anything more of it than I need to. I'm giving you another example because you're insistent on playing graph wars.
If you aren't interested in making your own conclusion from your own testing whilst insisting that I do my own, that makes you a hypocrite. I've already said I will do some testing. This needs to include minimums and frame time variance as these are intrinsically related.

The link you provided was for skylake x this is coffee lake. I’m not being hypocritical or playing graph wars lol. Im just reliterating what their tests have shown, if you have evidence that shows otherwise then show it, if you want to do your own tests then do it. It doesn’t matter much to me.

I do not have coffee lake neither will I be buying it so I will not be doing my own tests.

 

[Silent_Scone]

The link you provided was for skylake x this is coffee lake. I’m not being hypocritical or playing graph wars lol. Im just reliterating what their tests have shown, if you have evidence that shows otherwise then show it, if you want to do your own tests then do it. It doesn’t matter much to me.

I do not have coffee lake neither will I be buying it so I will not be doing my own tests.

It's quite a difference though for a lot of people. That's potentially £60 towards the cost of a graphics card.

Samsung b is obviously better for ryzen but not necessarily worth it for the majority and Intel users can use anything 2666 and above and get perfectly good results. It seems their stronger IMC has practically no real world benefits.

Your original blanket statement says nothing about Coffee Lake, and I'll try to post results for both platforms. If you want to do things right, it takes time. The scope for this goes beyond simply making note of the average framerate, which is what I've been saying all along...

 

[Doobedoo]

Your original blanket statement says nothing about Coffee Lake, and I'll try to post results for both platforms. If you want to do things right, it takes time. The scope for this goes beyond simply making note of the average framerate, which is what I've been saying all along...

Dude you should have read what was being said before jumping on me, all the details had already been posted it’s not my fault you failed to read them.
I understood what you was saying which is why I said you should provide the information to back it up.
Anandtech shows frame times in their comparison of Ryzen, they also came to a similar conclusion.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Dude you should have read what was being said before jumping on me, all the details had already been posted it’s not my fault you failed to read them.
I understood what you was saying which is why I said you should provide the information to back it up.
Anandtech shows frame times in their comparison of Ryzen, they also came to a similar conclusion.

I corrected your statement regarding memory IC and Intel platforms, so I would have posted regardless of TPUs piece

 

[Doobedoo]

I corrected your statement regarding memory IC and Intel platforms, so I would have posted regardless of TPUs piece

Nice one .

 

[bru]

So bottom line is that memory timings and speed, do make a difference, but not a massive one.

It is up to the individual on whether it is worth any extra cost involved.

 

[Doobedoo]

That’s what it looks like so far unless scone finds anything contrary when does some testing.

Obviously some games benifit from others don’t.