Intel to launch 6 core Coffee Lake-S CPUs & Z370 chipset 5 October 2017

[DarkHorizon472]

Most likely future game engines will be more core aware than many of the older game engines. The older ones rely on a few cores so higher single core performance is noticeable. On newer games and those properly optimised for more than 4 cores the opposite can be true.

It will likely be similar to the change from dual to quad cores several years ago.

 

[Smffy]

I might swap out for 8700k from my 1800x, but i only bought the 1800x out of boredom really to try something different. It's a decent chip but honesty I want all the major titles this year to support it with SMT on or it's going...

We will see how it looks when the beta is done and on other major titles like WW2, thankfully the release dates line up nicely.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

GameGPU have done an extensive review of Destiny 2:

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/destiny-beta-test-gpu-cpu

Look at the CPU benchmarks - a Ryzen 3 1300X is the same as a Ryzen 7 1800X,and an i3 6100 beats SB/IB Core i7 4C/8T and 6C/12T CPUs,and is only 10% behind a Core i7 4770. The Core i7 4670K performs virtually the same as a Core i7 4770K.

It seems SMT is broken on all AMD and Intel CPUs outside Skylake.

 

[Rroff]

Yes, somewhere along the line, whether it be in the game engine, DirectX/Vulkan, the OS, or the CPU driver, something has to prioritise keeping things on the same CCX where possible. If not, you can end up with a performance hit due to the high inter-CCX latency. That's where the talk of "optimisations" comes in.

Problem is that isn't something the game/engine developer necessarily has much control over - they can maybe make some changes to minimise the chances of penalties happening but in many cases full control over it will be at OS/API level, etc.

In a more graphic hardware context it was one of the approaches that "closer to the metal" APIs were supposed to address. In most cases game/engine developers simply don't have much control over things like this they can simply try and mitigate the effects a bit.

Most likely future game engines will be more core aware than many of the older game engines. The older ones rely on a few cores so higher single core performance is noticeable. On newer games and those properly optimised for more than 4 cores the opposite can be true.

It will likely be similar to the change from dual to quad cores several years ago.

There is a lot of processing games that simply is very very serialised and will likely never see a true multi-threaded implementation and will at the end of the day always be a performance bottleneck even when engines start to take more advantage of additional cores for things like AI processing, more advanced sound and physics, etc. etc.

 

[gavinh87]

GameGPU have done an extensive review of Destiny 2:

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/destiny-beta-test-gpu-cpu

Look at the CPU benchmarks - a Ryzen 3 1300X is the same as a Ryzen 7 1800X,and an i3 6100 beats SB/IB Core i7 4C/8T and 6C/12T CPUs,and is only 10% behind a Core i7 4770. The Core i7 4670K performs virtually the same as a Core i7 4770K.

It seems SMT is broken on all AMD and Intel CPUs outside Skylake.

Gamer nexus did a better job imo


He does say SMT isn't working which I observed myself.
That said, take away SMT and you are still left with 8 cores getting beat by a dual core i3. This is at 3.9 and with 3200 ram.
Something in this game is either exposing a weakness of ryzen or its just broke. We can see its scaling with ryzen, as the 1700 is faster than the 1400.
I'd like to see how it behaves with 1 ccx disabled to eliminate the cross talk latency.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Gamer nexus did a better job imo


He does say SMT isn't working which I observed myself.
That said, take away SMT and you are still left with 8 cores getting beat by a dual core i3. This is at 3.9 and with 3200 ram.
Something in this game is either exposing a weakness of ryzen or its just broke. We can see its scaling with ryzen, as the 1700 is faster than the 1400.
I'd like to see how it behaves with 1 ccx disabled to eliminate the cross talk latency.

GameGPU did more extensive tests - they have far more CPUs tested and far more graphics cards.

The fact is a Core i3 6100 is only 10% behind a Core i7 4770K. A Core i5 4670K shows similar performance to a Core i7 4770K. Both SB 4C and 4C/8T CPUs perform the same.

This hints at the game being optimised for Skylake.

 

[gavinh87]

GameGPU did more extensive tests - they have far more CPUs tested and far more graphics cards.

The fact is a Core i3 6100 is only 10% behind a Core i7 4770K. A Core i5 4670K shows similar performance to a Core i7 4770K. Both SB 4C and 4C/8T CPUs perform the same.

This hints at the game being optimised for Skylake.

It is more extensive yes, I just preferred the GN review as they show testing methods etc. And include a video for the lazy people like me.
Hardware unboxed/tech spot did a small CPU test

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It is more extensive yes, I just preferred the GN review as they show testing methods etc. And include a video for the lazy people like me.
Hardware unboxed/tech spot did a small CPU test

The thing is they are doing the mistake of not testing older CPUs too - I mean if a Core i3 6100 is getting that close to a Core i7 4770K that is not right. By my estimates a Core i3 7350K with its higher clockspeeds should be similar to a Core i7 4770K.

It reminds me of FO4 - SB/IB/Haswell all clock for clock were quite close together,and in comes SKL/KL with its fast RAM support,and it can be a noticeable difference in minimums.

Edit!!

Looked at the GN results going from a 4GHZ Core i3 7350K to a 4.2GHZ to 4.5GHZ Core i7 7700K gained about 30% extra performance. Unless the Core i7 7700K hits a GPU limit,considering its clocked higher,its not a massive performance bump for double the threads.

The Core i3 7350K at £100 looks like the best price/performance CPU for Destiny 2 going by all these results!!

Second Edit!!

This is the area,GameGPU tested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtrhGpnHc3Y

 

[gavinh87]

The thing is they are doing the mistake of not testing older CPUs too - I mean if a Core i3 6100 is getting that close to a Core i7 4770K that is not right. By my estimates a Core i3 7350K with its higher clockspeeds should be similar to a Core i7 4770K.

It reminds me of FO4 - SB/IB/Haswell all clock for clock were quite close together,and in comes SKL/KL with its fast RAM support,and it can be a noticeable difference in minimums.

Yep, this is a weird one because it does use 8 cores yet a dual core is beating ryzen.
Either this exposes a weakness in ryzen or is plain broken.

 

[Rroff]

Yep, this is a weird one because it does use 8 cores yet a dual core is beating ryzen.
Either this exposes a weakness in ryzen or is plain broken.

One thing that would need looking at is the frametimes/smoothness as well - in a few games dual cores can put up what look like good numbers on paper but try playing and they are all over the place with lots of micro pauses and bursts of high framerate, etc.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yep, this is a weird one because it does use 8 cores yet a dual core is beating ryzen.
Either this exposes a weakness in ryzen or is plain broken.

Well looking at the area GameGPU was testing it had explosions,and a number of AI units,so was not too bad a place to test. But SKL/KL Core i3 CPUs seem to have most of the performance of the SKL/KL Core i5/i7 CPUs too,and going from the GameGPU results of the older Intel CPUs,they look very strong in comparison.

Hopefully,we can get some testing from Digital Foundry as they will look at stutter too.

 

[gavinh87]

One thing that would need looking at is the frametimes/smoothness as well - in a few games dual cores can put up what look like good numbers on paper but try playing and they are all over the place with lots of micro pauses and bursts of high framerate, etc.

Well looking at the area GameGPU was testing it had explosions,and a number of AI units,so was not too bad a place to test. But SKL/KL Core i3 CPUs seem to have most of the performance of the SKL/KL Core i5/i7 CPUs too,and going from the GameGPU results of the older Intel CPUs,they look very strong in comparison.

Hopefully,we can get some testing from Digital Foundry as they will look at stutter too.

Yep, this is all were going to get for now until release. Which yet again PC release if after consoles :/

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yep, this is all were going to get for now until release. Which yet again PC release if after consoles :/

Well OTH apparently my IB Core i7 sucks in the game,so at least you probably still have a better system than I have for Destiny 2!!

 

[muon]

Forgetting Intel.

A 1300X should not be so close to an 1800X if the game is multi-threaded. There doesn't appear to be any meaningful scaling.

Something is not quite right in the beta.

 

[gavinh87]

Well OTH apparently my IB Core i7 sucks in the game,so at least you probably still have a better system than I have for Destiny 2!!

You will certainly win in world of warcraft or BDO though lol. Nevertheless my 1700's days are limited. When coffee comes this is going to my daugher, I'm keeping the 4266 ram though

 

[eddyr]

You will certainly win in world of warcraft or BDO though lol. Nevertheless my 1700's days are limited. When coffee comes this is going to my daugher, I'm keeping the 4266 ram though

As your chip is so poor I'm willing to take it off you for pennies on the pound.

 

[pete910]

I remember that I mentioned AMD to have more bugs, and got attacked hard. Someone even believed me to have a personal vendetta against anything AMD... I was merely forwarding points by my friend T who happens to have worked for Baidu and Tencent.

Translation of conversation between me and my friend T below:

Me: Baidu has started using AMD (Ryzen)
T: Yes, my colleague has fallen for the sales pitch
T: AMD's instruction sets are not so compatible
Me: What instruction sets?
T: If they set high optimisations for GCC's compiling, then certain programs would crash
T: The market is like this. The ecology has been broken for a long time (due to AMD's hardware staying behind for too long).
T: It's of no use if there's no software support, no matter how cheap the hardware is.
Me: But the price performance ratio for Ryzen is already halved
T: Yes, that's why I said for home usage it's totally fine (to pick AMD)
T: I wouldn't risk using AMD for industry

It's well known that a certain batch had issues, if you have one just RMA it. Not all of the early batch had the problem, like mine don't .

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You will certainly win in world of warcraft or BDO though lol. Nevertheless my 1700's days are limited. When coffee comes this is going to my daugher, I'm keeping the 4266 ram though

The only Blizzard games I play are Diablo 3 and Overwatch!!

 

[gavinh87]

The only Blizzard games I play are Diablo 3 and Overwatch!!

We're probably about even there then! I know in fo4 you'd win lol

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

We're probably about even there then! I know in fo4 you'd win lol

Probably not as I have a locked Xeon E3 1230 V2/Core i7 3770. FO4 performance for the most part is OK with most newish CPUs as the engine really has issues much over 60FPS,due to the fact physics and framerates are linked,and reviewers artificially uncap FPS.

Where performance is important though is in large player created settlements,etc where minimums tend to be an issue. Very few sites have bothered doing that sort of testing,but looking at the performance SB/IB/Ryzen are quite similar(maybe close to Haswell but not looked properly at Haswell) but SKL/KL are a step ahead of them,especially with a core overclock and fast RAM.