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Intel’s surprise Ryzen killer

LePhuronn said:
You're not serious, are you? You are? Oh dear.

The next Intel CPU is another 14nm, and then there's nothing on desktop for another year. By the time Intel actually bring Alder Lake to desktop, AMD will be on 5nm Zen 4.
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Now that's going to be really interesting. My biggest issue with Intel right now isn't performance, it's close enough, it's power draw and consequently heat output. I'm done with space heater PC's, I like to game in comfort not my underpants :p My current setup (in sig) just makes the room pleasantly warm.
 
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Interesting, I wonder in IPC terms how far ahead AMD currently are, and how much increase we'll see with the 5000 series.
80% for a gen change is insane, shows how awfully held back shrouted intel have been over the past years with their inability to make technology work.

@humbug, you had IPC figures for the 3000 series at one stage, do you recall what lead AMD had before the 5000 launched?
 
The problem you have is full Intel 7nm which Ocean Cove and the miracle 80% IPC leap from the 2015 Skylake architecture is going to be 2023 at the earliest for desktop, and more likely 2024 nearly a whole decade after Skylake. Between now and 2024, TSMC will have gone from 5nm to 3nm, and AMD will be on Zen5, possibly Zen6 imminent.
 
I hope that AMD can keep going after Zen3. I'm worried that the design that Jim Keller gave them may not have a path beyond that, a path that continues to have IPC/frequency improvements.

Jim went to Intel for a few years after AMD (he's now left) - we still haven't seen his designs reflected in intel's products. Alder Lake will be the first design he had a big influence on, and is likely to be spectacular.

Back to now though, I can't make up my mind whether to get a 5900x or 5950x! Will wait for official reviews and 3090 scaling to see.
 
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Cyber-Mav said:
Intel roadmap showed next year 80 percent increase in ipc over skylake.

https://wccftech.com/intel-next-gen-10nm-willow-cove-golden-cove-ocean-cove-ipc-increase-rumor/
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That same website reported this article 5 years ago

https://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-cpu-10-20-performance-boost-faster-igpu-ddr4-overclocked/

Intel always make these bold claims in their marketing slides. Their 10-20% claim became 4% after release. So this 80% figure that you speak of will likely become 20% at the very most which is still behind AMD.

Intel currently need to improve IPC by approximately 30% just to break even with AMD.
 
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CuriousTomCat said:
That same website reported this article 5 years ago

https://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-cpu-10-20-performance-boost-faster-igpu-ddr4-overclocked/

Intel always make these bold claims in their marketing slides. Their 10-20% claim became 4% after release. So this 80% figure that you speak of will likely become 20% at the very most which is still behind AMD.

Intel currently need to improve IPC by approximately 30% just to break even with AMD.
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Rocket lake will likely give Intel back the gaming performance lead, by 2-10%, over Zen3. Though it will consume much more power doing so.

Alder Lake is when we'll see the 'old' intel comeback IMO. Jim Keller design (the guy who designed Ryzen), 10nm huge density improvement, frequency increase and big 'little' design. Big core small core.
 
Dave2150 said:
I hope that AMD can keep going after Zen3. I'm worried that the design that Jim Keller gave them may not have a path beyond that, a path that continues to have IPC/frequency improvements.

Jim went to Intel for a few years after AMD (he's now left) - we still haven't seen his designs reflected in intel's products. Alder Lake will be the first design he had a big influence on, and is likely to be spectacular.

Back to now though, I can't make up my mind whether to get a 5900x or 5950x! Will wait for official reviews and 3090 scaling to see.
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Jim Keller probably didn't design the chip on his own. The team has the knowledge to carry on without him.
 
fs123 said:
Jim Keller probably didn't design the chip on his own. The team has the knowledge to carry on without him.
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He was the lead architect for both jobs. History has shown that everywhere he's worked, the design that materialises (some time after he's moved on usually) turns out to be a golden age moment. He did it with Athlon's back in the day (k7+k8_. He did it with Apple (a4+a5), he did it with Tesla.

The pattern is obvious, Intel just hasn't been able to release his designs as they were for 10nm. Alder Lake will bear his stamp, and I can't wait to see what it can do. Until then, I'll have a 5900x or 5950x powering my system, assuming the review's confirm AMD's claims :p
 
Destination said:
Interesting, I wonder in IPC terms how far ahead AMD currently are, and how much increase we'll see with the 5000 series.
80% for a gen change is insane, shows how awfully held back shrouted intel have been over the past years with their inability to make technology work.

@humbug, you had IPC figures for the 3000 series at one stage, do you recall what lead AMD had before the 5000 launched?
Click to expand...

Because you @ me

With Zen 3 AMD are 30%+ ahead of Icelake.

Have you not learned anything yet? Intel have spent the last decade quoting high IPC increases over the last generation with each successive chip, and it always turns out 10X lower than what Intel quoted, right the way through almost the entire Core generations.

Intel have spent the last 10 years lying over and over again and you're still falling for it.
 
humbug said:
Because you @ me

With Zen 3 AMD are 30%+ ahead of Icelake.

Have you not learned anything yet? Intel have spent the last decade quoting high IPC increases over the last generation with each successive chip, and it always turns out 10X lower than what Intel quoted, right the way through almost the entire Core generations.

Intel have spent the last 10 years lying over and over again and you're still falling for it.
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I'm not falling for it.
Intel are full of *****.
That why I'll be amazed if they manage 80% IPC in one generation.
But even if they do, I recalled your previous calcs, just couldn't recall the numbers.
If AMD have a 30% lead, and are about to bolt a further 20% on top of that.
A 50% IPC lead or there about, it would virtually take Intel an 80% leap to catch up in IPC terms, especially given they think their fail deign will burn so much power they'll have to stack 8 actual cores with 8 pathetic cores to fit it inside one heat package.

Desktops are not mobile phones.
 
Destination said:
I'm not falling for it.
Intel are full of *****.
That why I'll be amazed if they manage 80% IPC in one generation.
But even if they do, I recalled your previous calcs, just couldn't recall the numbers.
If AMD have a 30% lead, and are about to bolt a further 20% on top of that.
A 50% IPC lead or there about, it would virtually take Intel an 80% leap to catch up in IPC terms, especially given they think their fail deign will burn so much power they'll have to stack 8 actual cores with 8 pathetic cores to fit it inside one heat package.

Desktops are not mobile phones.
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Zen 2 is about 10 to 15% higher IPC, Zen 3 bolts another 20% on that. :)

I think Intel are just looking at what AMD are doing and adding a number on top of that screaming (look at me, we are still best, and we will beat AMD by 50%! FIFTY PERCENT, we will you know... we will......."
 
It would be amazing if they did. Heck it would be amazing if IBM or Toy-R-Us released a CPU tomorrow which spanked Zen3 sideways.

Of course I don't believe it's going to happen but I'd be happy to see anyone push CPU performance on, Intel, AMD or whoever.

All this Intel hate gets a bit old tbh. AMD will happily become Intel if they could.
 
FoxEye said:
It would be amazing if they did. Heck it would be amazing if IBM or Toy-R-Us released a CPU tomorrow which spanked Zen3 sideways.

Of course I don't believe it's going to happen but I'd be happy to see anyone push CPU performance on, Intel, AMD or whoever.

All this Intel hate gets a bit old tbh. AMD will happily become Intel if they could.
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For profit margins seeking - yes but AMD will never reach the lows of Intel with regards to how they want 100% of the shipments to be theirs, pay large fees to the OEMs, so those don't use competitor's CPUs, and uses its own compiler in much of the popular apps, so the competitor's CPUs look worse artificially.
 
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