Intersex / transgender etc competing. Thoughts?

She was raised as a female, but is clearly a male. Her arguments basically revolve around, despite having a male physique, male hormone levels, male performance and testicles, because someone raised her as a woman she should be allowed to compete with women for easy mode rather than men.

It's pretty simple, want to make the switch as a transgendered person, good on you, make the hormone switch and even then it's dodgy, I think a significant time frame with proven lower test levels of 2-3 years should happen before you can compete again. Female to male change can compete quicker because frankly without a few years on higher test levels they won't be competitive anyway.

Intersexed, female sex orgrans, female hormone levels, compete in the women's category, male sex organs and male hormone levels, compete in the men's category. If they want to compete in the other category then same rules that apply to transgendered.

Thing is no one is saying she can't compete, but if she has male hormone levels, looks like a guy and obviously has superior performance she should compete with the men. There is a reason she doesn't want to, competing with men is going to be a level playing field. They are actively campaigning that someone with male level test who utterly dominates actual women completely should be allowed to compete in that category purely because she can win there and not against the men. You have to be in the top 0.0001% of men in the world to compete for a medal at the olympics, you have to be in the top probably 50% of men to compete for a medal at the olympics if you're allowed into the womens category.
 
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the point of running separate female events is to isolate women from the genetic advantages men have, I know we like being PC about gender and 'feelings' etc.. these days and that these intersex athletes identify as 'female' in their every day lives but the bottom line is that they possess some of the male qualities that female events were supposed to be isolated from in the first place - allowing them to compete just defeats the purpose of segregation by sex/gender in the first place

female category = XX chromosomes not XY + undescended testes and whatever else is down there + high testosterone levels but identifies as 'female'

Avenged7Fold said:
Shouldn't be allowed to compete within either the strictly male or strictly female catagories and instead should have the right to compete in a new third.

This third category i will call, everyone. Everyone is free to enter regardless of gender.
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Why not just the male category? I think if you're a mix of both (so not completely female) then the default should be that you compete in the male category. It is the female category that has been set up to isolate from the advantages men have rather than the other way around .
 
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dowie said:
female category = XX chromosomes not XY + undescended testes and whatever else is down there + high testosterone levels but identifies as 'female'
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Does anyone have any official statements or anything specifically stating that she has anything like internal balls, yet, or is this still just tabloid twitter?
 
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110414/full/news.2011.237.html

The most common cause of extreme hyperandrogenism is androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS). In these cases, an embryo is genetically male but lacks a fully functioning receptor for testosterone, so does not respond normally to the hormonal signal to become male. In typical cases, she develops as a female — although with internal testes instead of ovaries.
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dowie said:
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110414/full/news.2011.237.html
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"The most common cause"... but not the only one.
Still not seen anything to confirm she has balls...

However:
"The IOC and IAAF concluded that, because such women are resistant to androgens, they gain no competitive advantage from their high testosterone levels and have exempted them from the ban".
So either way, what's the problem?

Not a fan of this, though:
"The IOC says that an athlete banned from female competition under these regulations would not be eligible to compete as a male"
So they get to decide what gender you are and ban you from competing either way?
 
ttaskmaster said:
"The IOC says that an athlete banned from female competition under these regulations would not be eligible to compete as a male"
So they get to decide what gender you are and ban you from competing either way?
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It's their competition...yes.
 
ttaskmaster said:
"The most common cause"... but not the only one.
Still not seen anything to confirm she has balls...

However:
"The IOC and IAAF concluded that, because such women are resistant to androgens, they gain no competitive advantage from their high testosterone levels and have exempted them from the ban".
So either way, what's the problem?
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You only have to hear Semenya speak to know that she's not resistant to male androgens.
 
It would take a blind and deaf man to say Semenya is not displaying male characteristics.

Four years to come to a decision on it before next olympics and doubtless other competitions will have to make their own.
 
Hotwired said:
It would take a blind and deaf man to say Semenya is not displaying male characteristics.
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As with many a female weight lifter, but hey... I'm sure it's all in accordance with the Olympic Values, right?

I still firmly maintain that, because this is a natural ocurrence not a doped, artificial one, people like her should be allowed to compete and everyone else just has to step up.
 
ttaskmaster said:
As with many a female weight lifter, but hey... I'm sure it's all in accordance with the Olympic Values, right?

I still firmly maintain that, because this is a natural ocurrence not a doped, artificial one, people like her should be allowed to compete and everyone else just has to step up.
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Yes, Semenya should be allowed to compete.

With the men, the other people who benefit from having high testosterone levels.

That is the whole point of separating women and men otherwise there would be no women in any competition where endurance and muscle power is key.

We're not talking a smidgeon more but full blown male levels.

Yes it sucks for Semenya to be brought up as female and to be undefined as either sex but testosterone beneficiaries belong in the mens races.

The other option that was being enforced and was lifted for the farcial reason that the IAAF didn't have proof that testosterone boosts performance was to suppress Semenyas testosterone levels.

To no ones surprise performance improved when Semeyas treatment was lifted and ended up crushing the womens race.

But there we go, rules and strings, they need to make a solid decision on it and I'm pretty sure it won't continue the status Semenya had at Rio.
 
I don't think sticking her in with men is the solution. She's much closer to a female than a male when it comes to athletic capacity.

Much like the eastern european women (and Flo-Jo) in the '80s are still untouchable by non-doping women, but could never hope to get close to the men, Semenya is nowhere near.

The most fair solution really is the testosterone blocking medication, and let her continue as a woman. Even if that approach is a little difficult to stomach.
 
ttaskmaster said:
"The IOC says that an athlete banned from female competition under these regulations would not be eligible to compete as a male"
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I don't see any point in not letting women compete with men. If they're good enough, why not let them? Women's sport is a handicap division because men would simply outcompete them at, well, everything but men don't need any protection from competing with women at sport.

It's something of a moot point because Semenya's best times are so far below the men's so she couldn't compete even if allowed.
 
ttaskmaster said:
I still firmly maintain that, because this is a natural ocurrence not a doped, artificial one, people like her should be allowed to compete and everyone else just has to step up.
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what do you even mean by that argument?

for example half the world's population naturally has a penis - do they get to compete as females due to that 'natural occurance' too?

Are you arguing against having gender segregation in sports? What do you actually mean and what is the argument?
 
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