iPhone SE 2020

[Raikiri]

£400 iPhone. That has weight.

I still don't think they should be praised for basically chucking some new internals in an old phone and then charging through the nose, relatively for it.

Sort of kisses two points though - it offers a much cheaper product than is normally available from Apple if you want an Apple product.

Only through necessity though, they were losing a lot of the market to cheaper alternatives that often provided similar build quality etc.

And also Apple do tend to optimise well for the hardware they use. Even with cameras.

They do, definitely. My phone has arguably better specs (855, 6GB RAM) and I'm sure the iPhone SE will perform better in benchmarks. I'd like to see a DXOMark for the camera though, I can't see it doing that well.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I still don't think they should be praised for basically chucking some new internals in an old phone and then charging through the nose, relatively for it.

You are thinking like a person who are into cutting edge tech.

Put the shoe of an average person on, one who don't care about bezel size, one who don't want super large 4k OLED screen, one who don't care for Snapdragon 9000 this and that.

They want a phone that is "affordable", they want a phone that will last a while, they want something they know. They are not going to buy a Xiaomi or even a One Plus. They will stick to a Samsung, Apple and that's pretty much it.

Then they will get a phone that has all the important core aspect, fast internals, it even have wireless charging and basic water resistance, at a price not seen by Apple for years.

Put that shoe on.

 

[Ninco!]

You are thinking like a person who are into cutting edge tech.

Put the shoe of an average person on, one who don't care about bezel size, one who don't want super large 4k OLED screen, one who don't care for Snapdragon 9000 this and that.

They want a phone that is "affordable", they want a phone that will last a while, they want something they know. They are not going to buy a Xiaomi or even a One Plus. They will stick to a Samsung, Apple and that's pretty much it.

Then they will get a phone that has all the important core aspect, fast internals, it even have wireless charging and basic water resistance, at a price not seen by Apple for years.

Put that shoe on.

That'll be me then

My work phone is a much better model than my own. I gave up chasing the latest and greatest years ago.

It seems like a good offer to me. I like the iPhone 8 and it was bullet proof. One with upgraded internals sounds good to me.

This discussion prompted me to dig out my Nokia E71, the last none Apple phone I purchased before I converted. Now debating whether to rock a retro phone, still think it looks awesome (gets coat).

 

[Raymond Lin]

That'll be me then

My work phone is a much better model than my own. I gave up chasing the latest and greatest years ago.

It seems like a good offer to me. I like the iPhone 8 and it was bullet proof. One with upgraded internals sounds good to me.

This discussion prompted me to dig out my Nokia E71, the last none Apple phone I purchased before I converted. Now debating whether to rock a retro phone, still think it looks awesome.

Plus you can still use it while wearing a mask with Touch ID

 

[Ninco!]

Plus you can still use it while wearing a mask with Touch ID

Bought!

 

[Raikiri]

Plus you can still use it while wearing a mask with Touch ID

My £270 phone from a year ago has the fingerprint sensor built into the screen. Just saying

Works with gloves on too

 

[Raymond Lin]

My £270 phone from a year ago has the fingerprint sensor built into the screen. Just saying

Works with gloves on too

1 - It's not Apple
2 - It's from a brand I bet my mum wouldn't know
3 - The OS will stop having updates by the end of next year.
4 - Doubt it is fast as iPhone 11
5 - It will depreciate much faster

and again, from a techie that’s cool, under screen finger print reader but if you ask my mum, she won’t care, she rather it be in a place where she can see it.

you still can’t put on the other shoe.

Just saying

 

[Raikiri]

1 - It's not Apple

Thankfully

2 - It's from a brand I bet my mum wouldn't know

I mean, I guess? I don't know your mum, maybe she's a nerd.

3 - The OS will stop having updates by the end of next year.

Maybe, but it's already had over a year of consistent updates so likely not.

4 - Doubt it is fast as iPhone 11

About 80% as fast, but cost 30% as much.

5 - It will depreciate much faster

It won't. Even if it loses 50% of its initial cost an iPhone 11 would only have to lose 17% to have depreciated more.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Thankfully



I mean, I guess? I don't know your mum, maybe she's a nerd.



Maybe, but it's already had over a year of consistent updates so likely not.



About 80% as fast, but cost 30% as much.



It won't. Even if it loses 50% of its initial cost an iPhone 11 would only have to lose 17% to have depreciated more.

If you can't sell it to me (I have a Huawei P20 Pro), you are not going to sell it to the average person.

 

[Raikiri]

If you can't sell it to me (I have a Huawei P20 Pro), you are not going to sell it to the average person.

I'm not trying to sell it. I don't really care what people buy, I just don't think the new iPhone Se is a particularly good product compared to its rivals.

Your entire argument seems to be that it's made by Apple. Which is fine, I have nothing against them. But that doesn't automatically make it good value just because their other products cost more.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'm not trying to sell it. I don't really care what people buy, I just don't think the new iPhone Se is a particularly good product compared to its rivals.

Your entire argument seems to be that it's made by Apple. Which is fine, I have nothing against them. But that doesn't automatically make it good value just because their other products cost more.

Its rivals would wish they could release an iPhone SE tbh. Even the Google Pixel 3a or whatever that Samsung one is (I mean if I don't know and I read about these things....I doubt the average joe would), which is the closest idea, wouldn't sell as many as the SE.

 

[Raikiri]

Its rivals would wish they could release an iPhone SE tbh. Even the Google Pixel 3a or whatever that Samsung one is (I mean if I don't know and I read about these things....I doubt the average joe would), which is the closest idea, wouldn't sell as many as the SE.

I am absolutely certain that they won't. But obviously sales aren't a measure of how good a product is. If that were the case then Jurassic World would be the 7th best film ever made.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I am absolutely certain that they won't. But obviously sales aren't a measure of how good a product is. If that were the case then Jurassic World would be the 7th best film ever made.

We have to agree to disagree, but you are in the minority here on how you perceive this phone.

 

[Raikiri]

We have to agree to disagree, but you are in the minority here on how you perceive this phone.

It just seems like Apple has completely switched around their identity.

Generally speaking, they have released high-quality products at higher prices, concentrating on the user experience and ergonomics above outright performance. This has always been supported by their users and understandably so.

Now they release a phone that, ergonomically cannot compete with any competitor released in the last 2 years but offers good performance and only good performance. It seems like the antithesis of their brand, yet it's still lapped up.

 

[Raymond Lin]

It just seems like Apple has completely switched around their identity.

Generally speaking, they have released high-quality products at higher prices, concentrating on the user experience and ergonomics above outright performance. This has always been supported by their users and understandably so.

Now they release a phone that, ergonomically cannot compete with any competitor released in the last 2 years but offers good performance and only good performance. It seems like the antithesis of their brand, yet it's still lapped up.

That is the point, they are bringing their premium brand to a segment of the market that is generally occupied by your average name nobody. Their user experience is still there, it has the same user experience as iPhone 8, they haven't changed the formula of the iPhone 8 so it hasn't got worse.

You are still stuck in your techie shoe and not looking it from the average person, I have explained it 3 times now.

p.s. it doesn't offer good performance, the Samsung S8 offers good performance, arguably the SE offers the BEST performance of every phone on the market.

 

[Raikiri]

That is the point, they are bringing their premium brand to a segment of the market that is generally occupied by your average name nobody. Their user experience is still there, it has the same user experience as iPhone 8, they haven't changed the formula of the iPhone 8 so it hasn't got worse.

But they aren't selling a premium product. Many other companies produce phones that have better build quality and usability at the same or lower costs.

Having the same user experience as a 3-4 year old product isn't actually a good thing.

You are still stuck in your techie shoe and not looking it from the average person, I have explained it 3 times now.
p.s. it doesn't offer good performance, the Samsung S8 offers good performance, the SE offers the BEST performance of every phone on the market.

You seem to think that the average non-techie user gives a **** about Antutu scores or framerates. Apple, for a long time, has relied upon people buying their products for the interface and user experience.

A low resolution, 4.7" screen, with massive bezels, a tiny battery, relatively poor cameras etc. is the antithesis of what Apple have provided.

It's akin to comparing a gaming laptop from a few years back to a MBP. But in this case the iPhone Se is the gaming laptop. Sure, it's faster and about the same price but it is worse in every other aspect.

 

[Raymond Lin]

But they aren't selling a premium product. Many other companies produce phones that have better build quality and usability at the same or lower costs.

Having the same user experience as a 3-4 year old product isn't actually a good thing.



You seem to think that the average non-techie user gives a **** about Antutu scores or framerates. Apple, for a long time, has relied upon people buying their products for the interface and user experience.

A low resolution, 4.7" screen, with massive bezels, a tiny battery, relatively poor cameras etc. is the antithesis of what Apple have provided.

It's akin to comparing a gaming laptop from a few years back to a MBP. But in this case the iPhone Se is the gaming laptop. Sure, it's faster and about the same price but it is worse in every other aspect.

They are selling a premium product, the iPhone 8 has premium materials when it came out, it still have premium materials, it has premium internals, it has the fastest CPU. It is all metal and glass. It as the Apply logo on it. It is the definition of a premium product. The fact that it reuses an iPhone 8 shell doesn't make it less premium. It is not cutting edge on the outside, but it is a different thing.

You still don't get it, there are plenty of people who don't want a big screen phone, they love how the old iPhone look. The camera isn't poor, it isn't the camera from iPhone 8, you know that right?

p.s. it's a 4.7" screen, you don't need 4k res on it, it's like people putting 4k screen on a 13" laptop, it just kills battery and slows things down.

 

[Raikiri]

They are selling a premium product, the iPhone 8 has premium materials when it came out, it still have premium materials, it has premium internals, it has the fastest CPU. It is all metal and glass. It as the Apply logo on it. It is the definition of a premium product. The fact that it reuses an iPhone 8 shell doesn't make it less premium. It is not cutting edge on the outside, but it is a different thing.

The 1969 Lincoln Continental had premium materials when it came out, you can't chuck a V12 in it and call it a brand new car.

You still don't get it, there are plenty of people who don't want a big screen phone, they love how the old iPhone look. The camera isn't poor, it isn't the camera from iPhone 8, you know that right?

So why don't they just continue to use their old phones? Seems like a pointless upgrade unless Apple don't support their products for more than a couple of years.

p.s. it's a 4.7" screen, you don't need 4k res on it, it's like people putting 4k screen on a 13" laptop, it just kills battery and slows things down.

I never mentioned 4k. The new iPhone is 1334x750. Which is 1/8 of 8k, or 1/2 of full HD.

Edit: Just so you know, if Xiaomi, Huawei etc. released a new phone with a high-end chipset (Snapdragon 865) but a low res, 4.7" screen, large bezels, a small battery and an average camera I'd think that was a poor product too. Especially if they reused one of their old models.

 

[Raymond Lin]

The 1969 Lincoln Continental had premium materials when it came out, you can't chuck a V12 in it and call it a brand new car.



So why don't they just continue to use their old phones? Seems like a pointless upgrade unless Apple don't support their products for more than a couple of years.



I never mentioned 4k. The new iPhone is 1334x750. Which is 1/8 of 8k, or 1/2 of full HD.

Edit: Just so you know, if Xiaomi, Huawei etc. released a new phone with a high-end chipset (Snapdragon 865) but a low res, 4.7" screen, large bezels, a small battery and an average camera I'd think that was a poor product too. Especially if they reused one of their old models.

You just don't get it, I repeat what I said earlier. Agree to disagree. I am not going to waste anymore time on this, this isn't a thread for it anyway.

But my opinion is that you are wrong.

 

[Raikiri]

You just don't get it,

I do get it. People will buy anything if it appeals to them.

I repeat what I said earlier. Agree to disagree. I am not going to waste anymore time on this, this isn't a thread for it anyway.

But my opinion is that you are wrong.

It's my opinion that you're right. People will buy these by the bucketload.

It's still a poor product though.

I’ve sold my 64gb Xs, to move to the 128 SE. I wanted a smaller one handed phone with performance that’ll last a couple of years. Also doubled my storage at the same time.

I hope it's a good switch.

Just FYI the new iPhone SE is only 9.5% smaller than the XS, but the screen is 19% smaller with a 30% lower pixel density and a worse screen tech (IPS vs. OLED), only 65% screen coverage vs 82%, has a worse camera system, less RAM, a smaller battery, and a worse IP rating. The CPU is a bit faster.

I'd stick with the XS, personally.