Is it time to ban LED Headlights

How can they do this though? They can't retroactively apply a limit to cars already on the road.
if it happened and I don't see how it can unless it's a Europe wide thing as they won't make UK specific cars I doubt (mind you if crap lights are cheaper maybe I am wrong) but I expect it will only be going forward much like all other rules which were bought in such as seat belts
 
make it illegal to import/sell non-eu conforming bulbs (how many people take their cars off-road) ?
I'd like to see an estimate of how many cars have them, you see the wrong white on quite a few older vans.
 
How can they do this though? They can't retroactively apply a limit to cars already on the road.
If it's deemed too dangerous for the road, then I imagine fixes will need to be applied by the manufacturers, either through a product recall/replacement or through adapters that redirect the beam.

if it happened and I don't see how it can unless it's a Europe wide thing as they won't make UK specific cars
Why not? They already make cars RHD instead of LHD. That's mirroring the design of the steering rack, seats, door controls, dashboard and probably other parts, so what's one more set of headlights?

As for Europe - According to a recent study carried out through a dozen European countries by the Dutch Automobile Club, ANWB, the observation is the same everywhere: 66% of respondents explain that they are dazzled by the vehicles coming in the opposite direction.

 
If it's deemed too dangerous for the road, then I imagine fixes will need to be applied by the manufacturers, either through a product recall/replacement or through adapters that redirect the beam.


Why not? They already make cars RHD instead of LHD. That's mirroring the design of the steering rack, seats, door controls, dashboard and probably other parts, so what's one more set of headlights?

As for Europe - According to a recent study carried out through a dozen European countries by the Dutch Automobile Club, ANWB, the observation is the same everywhere: 66% of respondents explain that they are dazzled by the vehicles coming in the opposite direction.

its true they do make RHD cars - albeit it isnt just the UK which will use them... there are others but Oz is the other fairly large market for them.


but that said making RHD cars does cost more money and absolutely does put some car manufacturers off and is likely one reason why some cars are sold in other markets but not in the UK. (the obvious examples being Tesla model S/X as well as now Jaguars at the moment (whilst they transition) and a number of Chinese cars which never made it over here (i really fancied an xpeng P7 back when i was looking for a new car) .

but that said... i think the main issue would be..... take my car with its zonal auto directing full beam LED headlights........ Whilst i have voiced my concerns about them in terms of costs if they fail (I am crossing everything that they dont fail) imagine a scenario where my ipace was sold in Europe with these very impressive headlights....... but then for the uk market we instead for bog standard halfords £20 halogen bulbs.

As much as you say the majority of people who responded to a poll may have complained about being dazzled at night (to which i would consider buying a set of night time driving glasses) but i think that number would be a drop in the bucket compared to the uproar if

1) we started getting crappy halogen headlights in our cars when our neighbours across the pond were getting far superior lights in their cars of the same model.

and on top of that,

2) i think the outrage would be immense if cars had a forced recall which went in with their up to £5000 expensive optional extra headlights and came back with halogens.

personally i don't think 1) will happen and as for 2) i would bet money that wont happen. if in the unlikely event new cars had their lights gimped, i stand by what i said where imo it would be like car seatbelts where if fitted you have to use them but if not then you don't have to install them,

(or in a different market where rules changed.............. home heating gas back boilers (and hopefully soon gas boilers in general) where if you have them already you can keep using them but the sale of them in new builds is or will be restricted)
 
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but that said making RHD cars does cost more money and absolutely does put some car manufacturers off and is likely one reason why some cars are sold in other markets but not in the UK. (the obvious examples being Tesla model S/X as well as now Jaguars at the moment (whilst they transition) and a number of Chinese cars which never made it over here (i really fancied an xpeng P7 back when i was looking for a new car)
Neither of which are especially cheap.
But there are hundreds of car models that the UK doesn't get, just as with plenty of other countries. The US has loads of models that no other country gets, yet are similarly upset that they don't get what we have. VAG are a particular bone of contention for them, especialy Škoda models and diesel engines.
That's just the way it goes...

but that said... i think the main issue would be..... take my car with its zonal auto directing full beam LED headlights........ Whilst i have voiced my concerns about them in terms of costs if they fail (I am crossing everything that they dont fail) imagine a scenario where my ipace was sold in Europe with these very impressive headlights....... but then for the uk market we instead for bog standard halfords £20 halogen bulbs.
If it works safely, it's not a problem, is it.....!!
You can still have your car with a billion lumens blasting out the front, so long as the alignment does not blind the surrounding traffic. The problem is with cars that are misaligned out the factory, or that go out of alignment and the owners/MoT centres don't know to correct them.

But instead imagine the scenario where your iPace lights are so bright that they blind an oncoming car. That driver cannot see the left side of the road any more, bounces off the nearside and straight into your path - Your wife and children later die in hospital and you're left to remember them for the rest of your paralysed life.

As much as you say the majority of people who responded to a poll may have complained about being dazzled at night (to which i would consider buying a set of night time driving glasses) but i think that number would be a drop in the bucket compared to the uproar if
You're talking about almost 70% of people (RAC survey said 89%). Why should they all have to go get glasses just so you can have stupidly bright lights?
If you really need that amount of light for driving, you're the one who should have gone to Specsavers....!

1) we started getting crappy halogen headlights in our cars when our neighbours across the pond were getting far superior lights in their cars of the same model.
We wouldn't be, though. Everyone would be getting properly aligned lights that don't blind others.
Both my recent VAGs have old style Xenons and they're more than bright enough, without needing portable sun levels of light.

2) i think the outrage would be immense if cars had a forced recall which went in with their up to £5000 expensive optional extra headlights and came back with halogens.
If your billion lumen lights are a proven safety risk, you'll find getting insurance for the car more problematic.

personally i don't think 1) will happen and as for 2) i would bet money that wont happen. if in the unlikely event new cars had their lights gimped, i stand by what i said where imo it would be like car seatbelts where if fitted you have to use them but if not then you don't have to install them,
I'll take that bet....
The UN is currently drafting new legislation to make auto-levelling a requirement around 2027.
GM already recalled 750,000 vehicles (models from 2010-2017) due to overly bright headlights in 2022. Porsche has recalled 3,000 Macans for the same reason. Hyundai recalled 230,000 and Mercedes recalled 34,000. You already lost the bet.... and no-one is outraged, because the manufacturers are picking up the bill.

(or in a different market where rules changed.............. home heating gas back boilers (and hopefully soon gas boilers in general) where if you have them already you can keep using them but the sale of them in new builds is or will be restricted)
Plenty of places have lost the ability to use open fire fuels entirely. All those people with period homes and coal fires or ranges, doesn't matter how old the period is or how long they've had them, they're prohibited if they don't comply with the modern regs.
 
The UN is currently drafting new legislation to make auto-levelling a requirement around 2027.
ok fair point, i will agree with you completely with missaligned lights, if that is all you are talking about then sure, however i (possibly mistakenly from what you are suggesting) thought that correctly lined up lights was part of the MOT test and if they were out of wack they had to be tweaked or it was a fail.

if your only issue is with poorly aligned lights then cool however it is the banning of LED headlights which i was more pushing back against - and imo this is simply not gonna happen across all markets.

my old 350z had xenons and they too were incredibly good lights, they certainly didnt seem any less bright than my LEDs so presumably anyone who wants LEDs banned would also want Xenons gone too.....

btw i did a quick google...... i could not find info for my ipace (it was a very quick look) but most other modern Jaguars seem to have auto levelling headlights so i assume the ipace does. Certainly i have never been flashed AFAIK. that said as we get older, lights at night esp in the rain do become more dazzling... i have noticed it and it is why i will likely be buying some antiglare night driving glasses.

over all tho and i will now preface with correctly aligned which i didnt put earlier, think that LED (and xenon) headlights are better than older halogen ones and i do not think they should be banned personally.
 
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GM already recalled 750,000 vehicles (models from 2010-2017) due to overly bright headlights in 2022. Porsche has recalled 3,000 Macans for the same reason. Hyundai recalled 230,000 and Mercedes recalled 34,000. You already lost the bet.... and no-one is outraged, because the manufacturers are picking up the bill.
PS sorry i forgot to reply to this...... so you are literally saying as per the thread title that these cars were recalled and the LED - or xenon i dont mind which - lights were removed and replaced with halogen ones and there was not a stink about it?

if so i am stunned and i will accept i was wrong.
 
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I’m not 100% it’s the brightness which is the problem.


I think it’s more to do with the implementation of the light.



What I find personally annoying is glare, which can be due to misalignment, retrofitting or poor quality lights.



I think it would be wrong to say bright LED = bad.



It’s the same with LEDs at home, particularly in reflector bulbs (MR16 or GU10 style lights)


Some LED bulbs look terrible, with loads of glare. Some look great and just provide quality downward lighting.




I think the industry needs to be stricter on how they assess lighting, rather than putting a brightness limitation on everything.
 
A lot of people around here use full beam when it isn't needed and they don't dip them until they are almost next to you. Fog lights get used in the rain. Might be a good idea to try and better educate drivers in the proper use and then the police doing something about it.
 
Well that paragraph escalated quickly :p
Dealt with the aftermath of several messy RTAs in my time. Experiences like that really hammer home the need for safe and considerate driving.

ok fair point, i will agree with you completely with missaligned lights, if that is all you are talking about then sure, however i (possibly mistakenly from what you are suggesting) thought that correctly lined up lights was part of the MOT test and if they were out of wack they had to be tweaked or it was a fail.
Two things had been firmly established earlier in the thread:

1/. It's less about how many lumens come out of the light, but more about how and where all those lumens are pointed. A 500lm light focussed directly at you will seem brighter than 5,000lm shining 360º.
2/. Headlamp aim consistently tops the MOT compliance surveys as one of the most likely items to be assessed incorrectly by testers.

MoT testers should check your alignment and often will make small corrections, but there's no legal requirement to do so and large corrections will need to be done by a proper garage.
But if they themselves aren't checking things properly (through laziness or lack of knowledge) then there's a big problem.

my old 350z had xenons and they too were incredibly good lights, they certainly didnt seem any less bright than my LEDs so presumably anyone who wants LEDs banned would also want Xenons gone too.....
Again, it's not the output but the alignment.

that said as we get older, lights at night esp in the rain do become more dazzling... i have noticed it and it is why i will likely be buying some antiglare night driving glasses.
I wear standard glasses for driving, but either way my night vision is still very good, hence the assertion that people just don't need massively bright lights to see, and that lights have gotten so bright that they're now a detriment. I regularly find cars whose lights are so bright that you can't see their indicators through the glare and even cars behind them can be masked. This is a problem at junctions and roundabouts.

PS sorry i forgot to reply to this...... so you are literally saying as per the thread title that these cars were recalled and the LED - or xenon i dont mind which - lights were removed and replaced with halogen ones and there was not a stink about it?
if so i am stunned and i will accept i was wrong.
I don't know what the solution was, but the recalls over bright lights were publicised.
I imagine it was just a change in the lenses and reflectors, but either way the problem is real and the manufacturers themselves have accepted this.
 
Dealt with the aftermath of several messy RTAs in my time. Experiences like that really hammer home the need for safe and considerate driving.


Two things had been firmly established earlier in the thread:

1/. It's less about how many lumens come out of the light, but more about how and where all those lumens are pointed. A 500lm light focussed directly at you will seem brighter than 5,000lm shining 360º.
2/. Headlamp aim consistently tops the MOT compliance surveys as one of the most likely items to be assessed incorrectly by testers.

MoT testers should check your alignment and often will make small corrections, but there's no legal requirement to do so and large corrections will need to be done by a proper garage.
But if they themselves aren't checking things properly (through laziness or lack of knowledge) then there's a big problem.


Again, it's not the output but the alignment.


I wear standard glasses for driving, but either way my night vision is still very good, hence the assertion that people just don't need massively bright lights to see, and that lights have gotten so bright that they're now a detriment. I regularly find cars whose lights are so bright that you can't see their indicators through the glare and even cars behind them can be masked. This is a problem at junctions and roundabouts.


I don't know what the solution was, but the recalls over bright lights were publicised.
I imagine it was just a change in the lenses and reflectors, but either way the problem is real and the manufacturers themselves have accepted this.
I was just thinking that surely this should sort Itself out at not time, but I bet very few places will adjust lights. Iirc last time I saw them do it, it was something they practically pushed up to the car, but not sure how it worked between cars and SUV/van height. Also not sure how good it is if it's close up, the further away the better when it comes to aligning things.
 
I think dealers can take some blame for this. After we got the CX5, I complained to the dealer that the headlights were aimed too high and were dazzling people. The dealer looked at it and said "they're fine". In the end I lowered them myself with the adjustment screws.
 
I think dealers can take some blame for this. After we got the CX5, I complained to the dealer that the headlights were aimed too high and were dazzling people. The dealer looked at it and said "they're fine". In the end I lowered them myself with the adjustment screws.
Yep, I've said it a couple of times on this thread - when I got my Kona, the headlight aim was horrific. I had to have setting 3 on the adjustment switch for it to look normal. Took it to (another) dealer and they fixed it within 15 minutes. The guy was it was "a mess" and should have been caught on the PDI.
 
2/. Headlamp aim consistently tops the MOT compliance surveys as one of the most likely items to be assessed incorrectly by testers.
Yup, the DVSA inspectors are super hot on alignment being correct.
MoT testers should check your alignment and often will make small corrections, but there's no legal requirement to do so and large corrections will need to be done by a proper garage.
There’s a hell of a lot of adjustment on a headlamp, not sure why it’d have to be done by a “proper” garage (whatever that means).
 
I think dealers can take some blame for this. After we got the CX5, I complained to the dealer that the headlights were aimed too high and were dazzling people. The dealer looked at it and said "they're fine". In the end I lowered them myself with the adjustment screws.
At all the main dealers I’ve worked at, I’m the only one who’s checked alignment on new and used car PDI’s.
And trust me some of the new cars alignment was comically out.
 
in which case it seems we have the answer........ before drastic action needs to be taken then what needs to happen is that the rules which are already in place regarding headlight alignment checks in an MOT need to be enforced and if need be re-enforced to be stricter on forcing compliance.

once once that is done and if it is still shown that modern car headlights are a danger should there need to be a discussion about actively gimping or banning certain headlight styles.
 
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