Is it time to ban LED Headlights

[Terminal_Boy]

Maybe they'll make us apply those amber headlight covers like they used to use in France.

I do hope not as they were awful. Drove an ancient Renault 4 van belonging to a neighbour a couple of years ago at night that still had those fitted and it was light driving on sidelights.

The DRLs on my Duster are better.

 

[JonRGV250]

I can’t speak for all testers, but most I’ve seen don’t set the aligner correctly (or at all) and just check the height and not the “kick up” (if it has one) which considering it takes about 15 seconds to set up is a bit inexcusable.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Yup, the DVSA inspectors are super hot on alignment being correct.

Then they need to do a better job of inspecting the testers...

There’s a hell of a lot of adjustment on a headlamp, not sure why it’d have to be done by a “proper” garage (whatever that means).

Many MoT centres are purely testing places. They test. That is all. They are not actual garages.
They often don't have any tools with which to make any alterations anyway, or they'll just state that it's not their job and you'll have to get it adjusted somewhere else - Hence "proper" garage.

 

[Arterion]

Then they need to do a better job of inspecting the testers...


Many MoT centres are purely testing places. They test. That is all. They are not actual garages.
They often don't have any tools with which to make any alterations anyway, or they'll just state that it's not their job and you'll have to get it adjusted somewhere else - Hence "proper" garage.

But presumably they could fail you, thereby forcing compliance by mandating you have the problem corrected somewhere?

 

[JonRGV250]

Then they need to do a better job of inspecting the testers...

Yeah, good luck with that.
We used to have to do a refresher course every 5 years which was classroom and hands on (actually useful) now it’s a BS online test every 12 months.
The DVSA inspectors will only visit a MOT station every 3 years if its (and it’s testers) status is green or every 12 months if it’s red, and they only inspect one car from one tester.
They’re not exactly flush with staff.

 

[ttaskmaster]

But presumably they could fail you, thereby forcing compliance by mandating you have the problem corrected somewhere?

They could... assuming they do the inspection correctly. But therein is one of the problems:
"2/. Headlamp aim consistently tops the MOT compliance surveys as one of the most likely items to be assessed incorrectly by testers"

So while lighting and signalling accounts for 19% of all MoT failures and is reckoned to be the top point of failure by the RAC, according to data they got from from the DVSA, it stands to reason that many headlight alignment failures could be down to the tester not properly applying the test... as well as many poorly aligned headlights getting passed as a result of the same mis-assessment.

However, forcing compliance is another matter, with 2023 reports suggesting that up to a quarter of drivers admit to having knowingly driven without a valid MoT... how many more did so but didn't admit to is is anyone's guess, but the reports only sampled 2000 drivers. Either way, I imagine a fair few people wouldn't bother.

The DVSA inspectors will only visit a MOT station every 3 years if its (and it’s testers) status is green or every 12 months if it’s red, and they only inspect one car from one tester.

OMG, how lazy are they? It's only 24,000 test centres they have to inspect....!

I guess it doesn't matter how super-hot they are, if they're not applying it...
I can see this, with all the new technological online capabilities, ending up with testers having to include photo/video evidence of particular pass or fail points.

 

[bigmike20vt]

pretty sure if they introduced and enforced fines for testing centres not doing their jobs properly as well as centres having to advertise when they were caught not testing properly once a random few got caught out , it would incentivise others to train their staff properly.
that said...... I am shocked and saddened how many people knowingly drive without an MOT

 

[JonRGV250]

pretty sure if they introduced and enforced fines for testing centres not doing their jobs properly

I was talking to an inspector a while ago about this, and he said "we know who they are, the problem is catching them"
However, when they do..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856830321813057649

It's mainly the testers that get the fines/prison and not test station which stays open.

This sort of thing is extremely common place, and TBH I could sit here at home and issue MOT's whilst eating my breakfast and would very likely get away with it (not that I would, ever).

 

[Nasher]

Pretty sure most of the back street dealers run by some sketchy Asian guys are at it. Found a cracked front subframe on one, had a clean and recent MOT...

 

[bigmike20vt]

Pretty sure most of the back street dealers run by some sketchy Asian guys are at it. Found a cracked front subframe on one, had a clean and recent MOT...

dodgy MOTs have been a thing as long as I can remember. local pub in Runcorn used to sell a.dodgy MOT as well as car stereos to order....

Not sure the need for the casual racism however. I can't remember for sure but most of the scallies back then were white

 

[TheVoice]

I'll take that bet....
The UN is currently drafting new legislation to make auto-levelling a requirement around 2027.
GM already recalled 750,000 vehicles (models from 2010-2017) due to overly bright headlights in 2022. Porsche has recalled 3,000 Macans for the same reason. Hyundai recalled 230,000 and Mercedes recalled 34,000. You already lost the bet.... and no-one is outraged, because the manufacturers are picking up the bill.

The GM recall appears to relate to DRLs not turning off/dimming when the headlights are turned on, so nothing to do with the brightness of the headlights themselves, though the Porsche recall was for headlight brightness (in the US where limits are lower) and was fixed in software. The Hyundai recall related to reversing cameras and the Merc recall related to sunroofs, so nothing to do with headlights.

 

[ttaskmaster]

The GM recall appears to relate to DRLs not turning off/dimming when the headlights are turned on, so nothing to do with the brightness of the headlights themselves

DETROIT — General Motors is recalling more than 740,000 small SUVs in the U.S. because the headlight beams can be too bright and cause glare for oncoming drivers...

GM recalling 740,000 SUVs because headlights can be too bright

The company is recalling GMC Terrain SUVs from the 2010 through 2017 model years.

www.nbcnews.com

The Hyundai recall related to reversing cameras and

"The original design of the LED headlights available on the Limited and Ultimate trims produced too much glare for oncoming drivers to be rated higher than poor by IIHS"

Recalls?

www.hyundaikonaforum.com

the Merc recall related to sunroofs, so nothing to do with headlights.

"The incorrectly adjusted headlights exceed the range specified by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 by just around 0.15 percent. Said headlights may create glare for oncoming traffic, therefore increasing the risk of a crash. Mercedes-Benz started investigating this concern in late 2021, following a series of tests conducted by the IIHS".

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mercedes-benz-recalls-old-glc-over-incorrectly-adjusted-headlights-229032.html

My point stands that if new brightness standards are set lower than the output/alignment of existing cars, recalls can and will be issued to correct the problem by manufacturers.

 

[TheVoice]

DETROIT — General Motors is recalling more than 740,000 small SUVs in the U.S. because the headlight beams can be too bright and cause glare for oncoming drivers...

GM recalling 740,000 SUVs because headlights can be too bright

The company is recalling GMC Terrain SUVs from the 2010 through 2017 model years.

www.nbcnews.com

"The original design of the LED headlights available on the Limited and Ultimate trims produced too much glare for oncoming drivers to be rated higher than poor by IIHS"

Recalls?

www.hyundaikonaforum.com

"The incorrectly adjusted headlights exceed the range specified by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 by just around 0.15 percent. Said headlights may create glare for oncoming traffic, therefore increasing the risk of a crash. Mercedes-Benz started investigating this concern in late 2021, following a series of tests conducted by the IIHS".

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mercedes-benz-recalls-old-glc-over-incorrectly-adjusted-headlights-229032.html

My point stands that if new brightness standards are set lower than the output/alignment of existing cars, recalls can and will be issued to correct the problem by manufacturers.

My apologies, my searching somehow took me articles with the same number of recalls for entirely different matters. Thanks for the links.

On that note I do agree physical recalls could occur, though in modern cars I suspect much of it could be fixed via vehicle software as opposed than the more extreme suggestions by some users of going back to halogen lights.

 

[jpaul]

Even though Merc recall notice itself seems to also say 0.15% sounds like a typo !.. can't see how much too bright the GM's were - was it significant in the scale of things - trustcopy nothing

 

[ttaskmaster]

On that note I do agree physical recalls could occur, though in modern cars I suspect much of it could be fixed via vehicle software as opposed than the more extreme suggestions by some users of going back to halogen lights.

I've always expected alignment to be the primary factor. My years as an LED torch geek and experiencing the difference between products of identical output but with vasty different focii already substantiated that.
But similarly not all cars with LEDs have the issue - On some you can still see the registration plate between the lights (occasionally you can even read it clearly) while on others the glare is so bad you can't even see if there's another car coming behind them.

In the old days we used to need aim-correcting stickers over our headlights if we were taking our car overseas.
I imagine most recalls would simply replace the main lens or relector. If it's just a software fix, that's even easier. I don't think old halogens will happen.

Either way, I don't care how they do it so long as I'm no longer being blinded in situations where it's a serious risk to the safety of me and those around me.

 

[jpaul]

Too many sealed units these days, I thought, so lens/reflector doctoring a thing of the past, versus rubber seals like my old 3er
.. I'm going to need a heat gun, like for changing a mobiles battery/screen (how much did gibbo pay for broken laser light)

 

[gbradders123]

Nothing wrong with let's if they are set right, they can be an excellent upgrade for classic and vintage stuff, especially if they are still running 6v electrics

 

[ttaskmaster]

Too many sealed units these days, I thought, so lens/reflector doctoring a thing of the past, versus rubber seals like my old 3er
.. I'm going to need a heat gun, like for changing a mobiles battery/screen (how much did gibbo pay for broken laser light)

I'm sure a manufacturer can unseal them... or they can replace the entire unit.
Again, up to them, but it'll be at their cost.

 

[Nasher]

I'm sure a manufacturer can unseal them... or they can replace the entire unit.
Again, up to them, but it'll be at their cost.

You can unseal them with some effort, but you'll need someone skilled in electronics to fix them there is no officially sanctioned repair. A dealer won't be able to do that. If they break out of warranty some of them are a few £1000 per lamp.

That's why insurance is so high on some cars now. You bump a headlight on an older car with LED lights, RIP.

 

[pastymuncher]

Going into town early on Friday some idiot in a lowered 2008 Golf coming towards my direction of travel was blinding everyone with his headlights. It was obvious he had stuck LED bulbs in his light units as it was so bright and the light was all over the place. Why do people do this when it's obvious that something is wrong when everyone is flashing him? Loads of people with "cyclops" headlights with a bulb out too.