Is it time to sack Wenger?
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Caporegime
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GIbb's isn't particularly good defensively or offensively(he's one of those fullbacks who bombs forward a lot so looks effective but meh) but he's NEVER fit and never will be. Sagna is not a good fullback, Frimpong is not a good midfielder, Gervinho is just complete gash.
So other than at least 4 team members, that also leaves all out backup as gash, and Arsenal in general are an injury prone squad.
RVP will leave before the team ever comes good, and its the tactical mistakes that cost Arsenal, IE, don't train the defence, play Walcott no matter what.
Up till one maybe two seasons ago Arsenal had a title winning team...... and a manager that put first teamers on the bench and crap players in the first team for no obvious reason.
Vela IS a better player than Walcott, Bendtner IS better than Walcott, Gervinho, Vela, Chamakh, Eboue was a great fullback, and definitely a better winger than Walcott, and a better DM than Song.
It doesn't matter how good a team you can piece together, if Wenger has his favourites who play no matter what........ that is the thing that I hate about Wenger so much, with a change in manager and a change in training(ie having someone competent train the defence) Arsenal should have won more than a few trophies in the past 7 season with the team they actually had, let alone actually getting rid of the dross and making the team even stronger.
I mean, this has been what people have said for 7 years, a bit like Liverpool, "next year the team will be great", but its not because those potentially great players either, end up crap, end up not getting games because a Wenger "favourite" is fit, or gets no games for no reason whatsoever.
That team you listed is a weaker team than ANY team you could have named in the past 7 seasons.... but stronger than the average team we've used in the past 7 years, why, Wenger.
You can't drop Pires, for Hleb, you can't drop anyone for Walcott, ever, for any reason. The team you listed will never be the Arsenal first team, ever, because Wenger is a moron, because Gibbs will never last a season fit, because you didn't include Walcott anywhere in the team, because you included 2-3 players who will walk out on Arsenal after being fed up with Wenger.
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Caporegime
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Because he's the best player at Arsenal, currently the best striker in the league, would improve any top 4 team in any league including Barca, and wants to win titles. With Wenger at Arsenal he will not win another league title, money and DNA have nothing to do with anything. Fabregas was the best midfielder in the league who left for a better team, that it was Barca was simply because he was good enough for Barca to want him. Had he been a much less good player, he'd not have entertained the idea of going to Barca........ and left for any other top team.
i highly doubt it.
I disagree, Fabregas was only ever interested in going to Barcelona that much is so obvious I shouldn't even need to say it. Had it been Real Madrid chasing his signature a club he had no great love for would he of left? I dont think he would have.
It's true some players do leave because they want to win trophies then there's other players who have a deep love for the club they're at; Gerrard could have left Liverpool years ago but didn't, Henry could have left Arsenal years before he did but didn't (he especially was sold when Wenger was willing to sell him) and now you have RVP who clearly loves Arsenal. If anything Wenger should be commended for having so many players during his time that have that love for the club despite them not winning trophies, you only have to look at the likes of Modric to see that while Spurs have a fantastic player he doesn't have a love for the club and would have no issue whatsoever moving to any club that's willing to pay the fee Spurs want for him at the drop of a hat.
As for your previous post about some of the players you've sent out on loan who are better than what you've got in the first team I'd say that's laughable at best, I would have thought the loan spells for Vela and Bendtner have proved being in a side like Arsenal makes them look better than they actually are. Vela and Bendtner have been colossal flops during their loan spells
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I didn't say he was interested in going somewhere else.
I'm saying , Barca don't pick up players like Catermole or Downing....... IF Fabregas wasn't a truly outstanding player he would not have expected to go to Barca, and that would have been the same for the past 7 years, he still would have left because Arsenal are going nowhere, doing stupid things, etc, etc. Okay, Catermole/Downings wouldn't want to leave an Arsenal type club either, add whichever player is an appropriate example, good enough that Arsenal/Wenger would make him leave, but not good enough for Barca. He is good enough to have his pick of clubs, so he chose his favourite, if he wasn't quite that good he'd have gone somewhere else.
Cesc wanted to go back to Barca because he's always been good enough for Barca, the fact that he wanted to leave Arsenal has nothing to do with that, these are two separate things.
Henry did leave Arsenal and he didn't leave Arsenal while they were winning things, they failed to win the champs league(through to some degree mistakes by Wenger) and left and won a champs league what, 2 seasons later with Barca, yes he did leave to win the last trophy he needed and the only one he thought he wouldn't now win with Arsenal.
Again, you're talking pap, so many players who love the club who didn't win trophies, like who.
RVP is ONE player, one player until last season was injury prone, not prolific and we've received no bids for.......
Fabregas has wanted out for years, Nasri left the second he became "rated" , Gallas left thinking Arsenal were going nowhere, Toure left, Clichy left, Denilson begged to leave.
Who "loves" Arsenal and wants to stay, Diaby, Song, Djourou.
The only player who I think actually loves Arsenal and wouldn't leave for a good while is Wilshire, but if he plays like he did last season and Arsenal continue to slip backwards, he'll leave as well.
There is love for a club and there is your career.
The rest of the players you seem to think of like Henry, won a bunch of titles in a side that was REALLY competitive not just "within 10 points of the top with a month to go" which..... isn't.
Bendtner, I literally know you haven't watched Sunderland, he's been excellent for them, his control his great, he's set up goals, he's scored goals, he's good at offensive and defensive set pieces. If you think he's been a flop at Sunderland you have not watched him play there.
As for Vela, he barely got 3 league games for the best part of 2-3 years, most players don't look particularly good after that long not playing. He IS better than Walcott and had we played him over his entire time with us instead of Walcott he'd still be playing well.
He's scored a great goal at Sociedad and played ok, but is playing in a team flirting with relegation that gets smashed every game, and thanks to Wenger, was mostly played on the wing at West Brom and seems to play mostly on the wing at Sociedad. He should still, at a decent club get a crapload of goals when played as a striker. His finishing is light years ahead of Walcott, his movement, workrate, technique are all so far ahead of Walcott as to be laughable.
I'm saying , Barca don't pick up players like Catermole or Downing....... IF Fabregas wasn't a truly outstanding player he would not have expected to go to Barca, and that would have been the same for the past 7 years, he still would have left because Arsenal are going nowhere, doing stupid things, etc, etc. Okay, Catermole/Downings wouldn't want to leave an Arsenal type club either, add whichever player is an appropriate example, good enough that Arsenal/Wenger would make him leave, but not good enough for Barca. He is good enough to have his pick of clubs, so he chose his favourite, if he wasn't quite that good he'd have gone somewhere else.
Cesc wanted to go back to Barca because he's always been good enough for Barca, the fact that he wanted to leave Arsenal has nothing to do with that, these are two separate things.
Henry did leave Arsenal and he didn't leave Arsenal while they were winning things, they failed to win the champs league(through to some degree mistakes by Wenger) and left and won a champs league what, 2 seasons later with Barca, yes he did leave to win the last trophy he needed and the only one he thought he wouldn't now win with Arsenal.
Again, you're talking pap, so many players who love the club who didn't win trophies, like who.
RVP is ONE player, one player until last season was injury prone, not prolific and we've received no bids for.......
Fabregas has wanted out for years, Nasri left the second he became "rated" , Gallas left thinking Arsenal were going nowhere, Toure left, Clichy left, Denilson begged to leave.
Who "loves" Arsenal and wants to stay, Diaby, Song, Djourou.
The only player who I think actually loves Arsenal and wouldn't leave for a good while is Wilshire, but if he plays like he did last season and Arsenal continue to slip backwards, he'll leave as well.
There is love for a club and there is your career.
The rest of the players you seem to think of like Henry, won a bunch of titles in a side that was REALLY competitive not just "within 10 points of the top with a month to go" which..... isn't.
Bendtner, I literally know you haven't watched Sunderland, he's been excellent for them, his control his great, he's set up goals, he's scored goals, he's good at offensive and defensive set pieces. If you think he's been a flop at Sunderland you have not watched him play there.
As for Vela, he barely got 3 league games for the best part of 2-3 years, most players don't look particularly good after that long not playing. He IS better than Walcott and had we played him over his entire time with us instead of Walcott he'd still be playing well.
He's scored a great goal at Sociedad and played ok, but is playing in a team flirting with relegation that gets smashed every game, and thanks to Wenger, was mostly played on the wing at West Brom and seems to play mostly on the wing at Sociedad. He should still, at a decent club get a crapload of goals when played as a striker. His finishing is light years ahead of Walcott, his movement, workrate, technique are all so far ahead of Walcott as to be laughable.
When you consider the average age and experience of the squad, I think Arsenal are doing relatively well tbh.
They have spent far less than Spurs, and are not exactly miles behind.
I would put money on Champions League footie next season. Not sure why everyone is always so pessimistic?
I think their wage structure is to be applauded. When Man UTD and Man City collapse or get sold off Arsenal supporters will have the last laugh.
They have spent far less than Spurs, and are not exactly miles behind.
I would put money on Champions League footie next season. Not sure why everyone is always so pessimistic?
I think their wage structure is to be applauded. When Man UTD and Man City collapse or get sold off Arsenal supporters will have the last laugh.
Wow arent you a smart kebab
...i mean the thread is about Wenger and whether he should be sacked so logic dictates that this will be about Arsenal lol.
Caporegime
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Wow arent you a smart kebab
But team threads are against the rules. These always start out on topic and then just turn into team thread, now most of the discussion is just about Fabregas. If these are allowed then why aren't team threads?
Fair play to Wenger, his ideology is tremendous, but ultimately it's no longer a winning ideology and the time has come for him to go - moving him upstairs would not change the culture of the club significantly.
You can't argue with his history at Arsenal, playing perhaps the best football in England for the best part of a decade, but his reluctance to change as football evolves, and his inability to replace departing players with quality, has led to a decline.
A new manager needs to come in and get rid of all the dead wood, and there's lots.
You can't argue with his history at Arsenal, playing perhaps the best football in England for the best part of a decade, but his reluctance to change as football evolves, and his inability to replace departing players with quality, has led to a decline.
A new manager needs to come in and get rid of all the dead wood, and there's lots.
got it clear in my head as your previous mention about wages.
but again you look at the squad and who they've got rid of, most i would expect to have been top earners or close to.
for the sake of 50m, compared to the income from the new stadium, along with the ticket price hikes and sales surely they should still have decent money available ?
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Its still on topic if u bothered to read this thread!
we are discussing how Wenger should/shouldnt be sacked and one of the reasons why he should be sacked is because he cant keep players like fabregas anymore and how rvp will go and the team will go down further thanks to wenger!
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yeah but come on, thats Cesc's favourite club, in that case SAF should be sacked for C.Ronaldo going to Real Madrid. All the Wenger doubters will go back to loving him once he gets a full squad back and pretend you never wanted him to leave all along.
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They have spent far MORE than spurs.
millions less in the transfer market OR millions more on wages. It's the same argument Liverpool use, net spend net spend. WE've got good prices, so have spurs on some players, we let City give us millions the players didn't warrant the fee's for and other teams also.
End of the day for both Liverpool and Arsenal its not net spend, its when you have money, you can spend 10mil on someone great or on someone crap, just because you started off with a player and end up with a player and spend no extra money doesn't make it a good deal.
You sell someone for 20mil, you have 20mil, you buy someone cack for 20mil, its 20mil you've wasted.
Arsenal have outspent Spurs in wages for a decade, massively so to a total that pales in comparison to the transfer spending of Spurs.
There is no ideology, there is blindness and stupid sayings.
His "winning" Arsenal were a 4-4-2, fast, extremely talented team with the best defence in the league, a as someone put it recently an inherited once in a generation group of defensive players who were epic. They've gone, our defence is a shambles, you would have to question had Adams/Keown/Dixon/Winterburn and the likes not been there when Wenger took over, would we ever have won anything or had the same defensive problems of the past 6-7 years?
Our tactics were(with a solid defence) all out attack, talented creative players who were footballers before athlete's, who attacked first and passed second. We were a more direct team that scored countless goals on the counter attack.
Going defensive in tough away games was unheard of, going to win every game was the way we won titles.
Sorry but while he says his ideology hasn't changed..... we aren't that same Arsenal. We play a defensive formation, we have athlete's who can't play football, we have no solid defence, we don't play all out attack and we don't go to win every game and haven't done for 6 years.
Wenger's tactics and methods have changed, and again the problem is he can't even see it.
How many youngsters did we really have in our title winning teams. YOungsters in defence....... Cole yes and no but he was world class, attack, no, wings, no, central mid, till Fabregas, nope.
We make 100mil in match day earnings, pennies above what Utd make with far lower ticket prices but bigger stadium..... we make something like 50 mil more from matchday income than Spurs/liverpool(averaging it out) and spend 50mil more on wages.
There is more money there, Wenger will not spend it. Before we ever moved from highbury the board said time and time again Wenger can spend whenever he wants to.
He has spent, and for every 10mil flop we could have bought a 10mil star, that's how football works. Every manager buys flops, the great ones get shot, take the loss and move on, Wenger is a stubborn idiot and rather than get rid of Diaby/Walcott, he gives them a new higher wage contract every couple years.
I mean, something as ultimately so simple as, senderos played great for us one season when all our main defenders were unfit. While he looked every single bit a massively better player than Djourou, we kept Djourou who has been a sicknote his entire time with Arsenal, and got rid of Senderos who was last season part of one of the best defenses in the league and this year having another good year.
he has never one time "built" a solid defence in over a decade at Arsenal..... and its defence that has cost us for 6-7 years since the last of our original defence was gone, with an abject failure time and time again in buying defenders.
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Caporegime
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In jonneymendoza's case that will be in a month if Arsenal put together a good run
in a month we play chelsea, city and spurs, and ac milan so HIGHLY doubt it
edit: Mata was inbound to join arsenal but instead went to chelsea as he felt chelsea offered more chances of him winning trophies. says it all
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Caporegime
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If you use that justification though you can discuss ANYTHING releated to the club because the manager is involved with nearly everything at the club. We had the same problem with the Sack Benitez thread.
I think Wenger or some of the board has to go tbh ther is just too much money in the game and especially in england for his wheeling ang dealing mentality to make any significant ground on those above him.
Arsenal need to splash the cash but either he or the board are unwilling to do it.
Arsenal need to splash the cash but either he or the board are unwilling to do it.
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But that is still on point. when u discuss how good or bad a manager is u tend to discuss his tactics, players, past history, players in and out from the manager etc etc. its all relivent
One of the most amusing posts I've seen in a very long time. Spurs have spent far more than Arsenal? LOL!
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