Is it time to sack Wenger?
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They didn't leave to pursue trophies, Fabregas went back to his roots and the team he always said he would go back to and Nasri left for money.
Caporegime
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Yes thats one reason why fabregas left but not the main one. he wanted to win trophies. i doubt he would go back to his roots if the club he came from was someone like Real Sociedad.
About Nasri, Well try telling that tio the City fans who think he left to win trophies. Nasri said himself he left for trophies.
Fabregas always said he wanted to go back 'home' even when you were winning trophies.
So who's saying he left for trophies again, Nasri or the City fans? either of which you wouldn't expect to come out and say it was for footballing reasons. didn't Arsenal fans hold up a Na$ri banner for a while?
Nasri left purely for the money and nothing else, he didn't leave for footballing reasons and to be honest, he took a pretty big leap of faith if he wants to win trophies. How many have they won in the last 35 years again?
Arsenal can't go and pay 50m+ for players and give them £200,000 per week like City and Chelsea can. Wenger has either got to buy young players and hope they grow up to be good enough or he has to buy established players for around £10-£15m, who are good players but generally aren't going to be as good as players that cost four times that.
Wenger does a good job getting Arsenal into the Champions League every season on what they have. What's made it worse this season is selling his best player and another very good player in the summer and having a lot of injuries to key players.
Wenger does a good job getting Arsenal into the Champions League every season on what they have. What's made it worse this season is selling his best player and another very good player in the summer and having a lot of injuries to key players.
Caporegime
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Firstly Fabregas won ONE trophy with Arsenal, right at the start of his Arsenal career and he wasn't loud about wanting to go back to Barca at the time.
Secondly......... seriously its a big leap of faith that City will win more trophies than Arsenal in the next 5 years............seriously? There are many arguments to make, the absolute strawman one there makes the weakest one possible.
when did City last win a trophy and when did Arsenal.... City, last season, Arsenal what 6-7 years ago now.
Nasri likely left for both money and a winning team.
I mean, theres no reason his agent couldn't have gone and got him double the money he's on now playing in Russia, or Dubai, maybe more in america....... but he went to the team in England most likely to have sustained success over the next 4-5 years....... to utterly ignore that and say it was ONLY about money is ridiculous.
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Do you need me to point out your flawed logic there or can you work it out?
It is also a big leap of faith, leaving a team you have been with for a fair few years to join a 'supersquad' of players, who says he will play 50% of the time when you have Toure, Silva etc?
So you argue with the fact it was about money and then further down agree with me that it probably was. nice one!
To say that he only left for footballing reasons is also ridiculous.
Caporegime
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It took two posts, to tell me I agree with you, then said something ridiculous.......... when I did neither?
Here's a little hint for you..... where did I say he'd play 100% of the time, if he plays 25% of the time in a team that wins the title, he gets a title medal and is part of a title winning team, if he plays 100% of the games for a side that wins nothing......... he wins nothing.
Do you need me to point out the flaw in your logic......
Likewise, please tell me where I said it was only about footballing reasons, that's right, you quoted exactly what I said..... and STILL GOT IT WRONG. here lets point out the relevant section for you.
Here's a hint your argument was it was ONLY about the money and that it was a huge leap of faith City would win more titles than Arsenal, then you threw in the classic, because of things teams did up to 35 years ago. In the past 6 years City have won more trophies than Arsenal, considering anyone who isn't blind could see the MASSIVE decline of Arsenal and considering everyone knew Fabregas was leaving and was by far and away Arsenal's most important player....
Last season with Fabregas, City won something and we didn't, so its a big leap of faith that Arsenal losing their best player and City likely buying more would give him a better chance at trophies at City....lol
Here's a little hint for you..... where did I say he'd play 100% of the time, if he plays 25% of the time in a team that wins the title, he gets a title medal and is part of a title winning team, if he plays 100% of the games for a side that wins nothing......... he wins nothing.
Do you need me to point out the flaw in your logic......
Likewise, please tell me where I said it was only about footballing reasons, that's right, you quoted exactly what I said..... and STILL GOT IT WRONG. here lets point out the relevant section for you.
Here's a hint your argument was it was ONLY about the money and that it was a huge leap of faith City would win more titles than Arsenal, then you threw in the classic, because of things teams did up to 35 years ago. In the past 6 years City have won more trophies than Arsenal, considering anyone who isn't blind could see the MASSIVE decline of Arsenal and considering everyone knew Fabregas was leaving and was by far and away Arsenal's most important player....
Last season with Fabregas, City won something and we didn't, so its a big leap of faith that Arsenal losing their best player and City likely buying more would give him a better chance at trophies at City....lol
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This is just an Arsenal team thread now.
Caporegime
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And what if RVP jumps ship end of the season? people going to say he left for money?
There is far too many excuses to justify Wenger being the right man for arsenal
There is far too many excuses to justify Wenger being the right man for arsenal
I wasn't even discussing it with you but you had to jump in, I try to refrain from entering into discussions with yourself as I think you're slightly mentally ill.
I also see you skipped over your stupid Fabregas comment.....
FABREGAS NEVER SAID HE WANTED TO JOIN BARCELONA WHEN HE FIRST JOINED ARSENAL!!!!!!!
funny that.
I also see you skipped over your stupid Fabregas comment.....
FABREGAS NEVER SAID HE WANTED TO JOIN BARCELONA WHEN HE FIRST JOINED ARSENAL!!!!!!!
funny that.
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is that post aimed at DM? or me? i think it was me and you who was originally discussing about players leaving to win for trophies
do you need help with that then or?
Soldato
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Question still remains who can replace him. How much would that cost? New coach, players. Getting rid of wenger still leaves a 4th or 5th spot squad.
I'm not going to join in the cries for Wengers head, yet - but we are suffering from the same problem that Liverpool have had for years, we have far too many average players. Players that are not so bad that you have to ship them out, but are also nowhere near good enough to be in a team that expects or hopes to be challenging for a title in the near future. Added to this problem is the fact that some of these average players are commanding salaries well over and above what they bring to the team.
Diaby, Song, Djourou, Squilacci, Walcott, Chamakh, Arshavin, Rosicky - none of these are particularly bad players, however they should not be anything more than bit-part players in an Arsenal team, let alone be earning in the region of £60k a week. How are we supposed to compete in the transfer market and attract real stars when we are splashing money up the wall on players that are simply not good enough.
We have the makings of a good centre midfield, I'm really pleased with the way that Ramsey is progressing, and if Wilshire can return to fitness in a similar vein of form to that of last season then we really are set in the middle of park. I'd like a holding midfielder to sit behind the two of them and protect the centrebacks for important games against strong attacking sides of course, but for most of your games that pairing will do.
Upfront we only have one person capable of scoring goals consistantly, and that all depends on him staying fit. What percentage of our goals this season has come from RvP - i actually don't want to think about it. Its time to spend money on a proven goalscorer, somebody who can regularly take chances at the top level - and there are not many of those around.
Defensively our ideal centreback partnership doesnt look too bad, Mertersacker and Vermalen are both very good in their own right, and given time I think they will complement eachother extremely well. We haven't had a decent left-back since Cashley left, we haven't had a decent right back since Lee Dixon retired - these are long standing issues that simply have not been fixed. Gibbs is not good enough, Sagna is not good enough, these players need to be offloaded and class brought in.
I forsee several more lean years as an Arsenal fan before either the board has had enough with our contant failuire, or Wenger realises that his ethos simply is not working.
Diaby, Song, Djourou, Squilacci, Walcott, Chamakh, Arshavin, Rosicky - none of these are particularly bad players, however they should not be anything more than bit-part players in an Arsenal team, let alone be earning in the region of £60k a week. How are we supposed to compete in the transfer market and attract real stars when we are splashing money up the wall on players that are simply not good enough.
We have the makings of a good centre midfield, I'm really pleased with the way that Ramsey is progressing, and if Wilshire can return to fitness in a similar vein of form to that of last season then we really are set in the middle of park. I'd like a holding midfielder to sit behind the two of them and protect the centrebacks for important games against strong attacking sides of course, but for most of your games that pairing will do.
Upfront we only have one person capable of scoring goals consistantly, and that all depends on him staying fit. What percentage of our goals this season has come from RvP - i actually don't want to think about it. Its time to spend money on a proven goalscorer, somebody who can regularly take chances at the top level - and there are not many of those around.
Defensively our ideal centreback partnership doesnt look too bad, Mertersacker and Vermalen are both very good in their own right, and given time I think they will complement eachother extremely well. We haven't had a decent left-back since Cashley left, we haven't had a decent right back since Lee Dixon retired - these are long standing issues that simply have not been fixed. Gibbs is not good enough, Sagna is not good enough, these players need to be offloaded and class brought in.
I forsee several more lean years as an Arsenal fan before either the board has had enough with our contant failuire, or Wenger realises that his ethos simply is not working.
interesting on watching the match, think it was ex arsenal alan smith, mentioning that the substitution might have actually been a stats based one rather than "proper" sub.
based around him only have played x minutes of x games so after 75mins (or whenever he was subbed), he was more likely to get an injury.
also been mentioned a few times on the reason for moving to the emirates was to provide more money to invest in the team, but it doesn't seem to be working that way, just makes me wonder where all the extra income is going
I've said this before but Arsenal have the makings of a very good team next season;
---------------Chesney---------------
Sagna--Koscielny--Vermaelen--Gibbs
---Ramsey--Fringpong--Wilshire---
Chamberlain----------------Gervinho
------------------RVP------------------
Like us Arsenal seem to get an unusual amount of injuries albeit I do admit that 3 of those players are rather injury prone. Obviously some areas of that team could be improved and the squad has a lot of dead wood which would be wise to be replaced with players of actual quality but Arsenal aren't far off, people just need to look at the bigger picture. Arsenal aren't going to get a better manager than Wenger so stick with him as who knows where you could be if he's gone
---------------Chesney---------------
Sagna--Koscielny--Vermaelen--Gibbs
---Ramsey--Fringpong--Wilshire---
Chamberlain----------------Gervinho
------------------RVP------------------
Like us Arsenal seem to get an unusual amount of injuries albeit I do admit that 3 of those players are rather injury prone. Obviously some areas of that team could be improved and the squad has a lot of dead wood which would be wise to be replaced with players of actual quality but Arsenal aren't far off, people just need to look at the bigger picture. Arsenal aren't going to get a better manager than Wenger so stick with him as who knows where you could be if he's gone
Caporegime
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Would RVP still be with us next seasom if we fail to finish in the top 4?
Caporegime
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interesting on watching the match, think it was ex arsenal alan smith, mentioning that the substitution might have actually been a stats based one rather than "proper" sub.
based around him only have played x minutes of x games so after 75mins (or whenever he was subbed), he was more likely to get an injury.
also been mentioned a few times on the reason for moving to the emirates was to provide more money to invest in the team, but it doesn't seem to be working that way, just makes me wonder where all the extra income is going
Can people really get this clear in their heads.
The team we had at Highbury was costing us 65mil a year in wages, we are now paying 115mil a year in wages.......... 50mil more with a MUCH worse team that has won nothing. If you want to know where the money has gone, 60k a week to Diaby, 60k a week to Song, 60k a week to Theo, 40+k a week to Denilson, probably 60-80k a week on Gervinho, 40-50k a week at a guess on Squillaci, 50-60k on Almunia, 80k a week on Mertesacker, and the list goes on, and on, and on , and on.
I doubt Utd are paying LIndergard anywhere near what Almunia makes, and he's clearly not going to be used. Wenger prefers to keep players around "just in case" and overpay crap first teamers rather than get shot of them and save millions a year.
Wenger has spent ALL the extra money on wages on crap players, it's as simple as that.
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