Soldato
Those Le Mans starts were a great spectacle. The signal is given, all the drivers sprint across the track, and Stirling Moss leads into turn one by several lengths
Is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT (this thread is about Lewis as an F1 driver, not anything else)?
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
Those Le Mans starts were a great spectacle. The signal is given, all the drivers sprint across the track, and Stirling Moss leads into turn one by several lengths
Let's look at this logically, we are discussing who is the GOAT, the Greatest Of All Time.
Time is still happening, so really we are looking for who was/is/will be the Greatest ever throughout the past, present, and future.
Who holds records that will never ever get beaten in all of time, to be trully the Greatest Of ALL TIME.
So how about
Graham Hill
The ONLY driver ever to have won the "triple crown" of motorsport.
Winning Monaco F1 Grand Prix
Winning Indy 500
Winning Le Mans
Montoya and Alonso have won two of the three, so I guess it might be possible that someone could win all three again sometime in the future, so will match Hill, so maybe not a contender for GOAT.
But then we have someone mentioned briefly earlier,
John Surtees
He won the Motorcycle World Championship in 1956, '58,' 59, & '60.
He was also the first man to win the Senior TT at the Isle of Man three years in succession, 1958,' 59, '60
He then moved to four wheel racing and won the F1 World Championship in 1964.
So he is the ONLY man ever to have won both the Word Championship on four wheels and the World Championship on two wheels.
So extremely competitive and a winner across multiple disciplines, something we will never ever see again.
So very much the Greatest Of All Time, holding a completely unmatchable, and unbeatable record.
So you can all carry on with discussing the best F1 driver of the current age, to add to the list of great drivers from previous ages, and the list will be added to with great drivers in decades to come, but no way is he the Greatest anything Of All Time.
All his F1 records and stats will get beaten one day, so sometime in the future, he will just be a note in a margin of history, as being a good/great driver in his era, but never of ALL time.
Surtees will forever hold a record that will never be equalled.
A true Greatest of ALL Time, past present, and future.
End of story.
Time is still happening, so really we are looking for who was/is/will be the Greatest ever throughout the past, present, and future.
Who holds records that will never ever get beaten in all of time, to be trully the Greatest Of ALL TIME.
So how about
Graham Hill
The ONLY driver ever to have won the "triple crown" of motorsport.
Winning Monaco F1 Grand Prix
Winning Indy 500
Winning Le Mans
Montoya and Alonso have won two of the three, so I guess it might be possible that someone could win all three again sometime in the future, so will match Hill, so maybe not a contender for GOAT.
But then we have someone mentioned briefly earlier,
John Surtees
He won the Motorcycle World Championship in 1956, '58,' 59, & '60.
He was also the first man to win the Senior TT at the Isle of Man three years in succession, 1958,' 59, '60
He then moved to four wheel racing and won the F1 World Championship in 1964.
So he is the ONLY man ever to have won both the Word Championship on four wheels and the World Championship on two wheels.
So extremely competitive and a winner across multiple disciplines, something we will never ever see again.
So very much the Greatest Of All Time, holding a completely unmatchable, and unbeatable record.
So you can all carry on with discussing the best F1 driver of the current age, to add to the list of great drivers from previous ages, and the list will be added to with great drivers in decades to come, but no way is he the Greatest anything Of All Time.
All his F1 records and stats will get beaten one day, so sometime in the future, he will just be a note in a margin of history, as being a good/great driver in his era, but never of ALL time.
Surtees will forever hold a record that will never be equalled.
A true Greatest of ALL Time, past present, and future.
End of story.
That’s all well and good, but personally I am discussing the greatest F1 driver of all time
As above, you wouldn’t say “who is the greatest runner of all time” or “who is the greatest ball player of all time” or even “who is the greatest skier of all time”. Athletes are measured within their own discipline. Yes they can move to other disciplines quite well in some sports and some motor saving drivers have done so. But for me I’m not interested, and I consider this discussion to be who is the GOAT when it comes to F1.
As above, you wouldn’t say “who is the greatest runner of all time” or “who is the greatest ball player of all time” or even “who is the greatest skier of all time”. Athletes are measured within their own discipline. Yes they can move to other disciplines quite well in some sports and some motor saving drivers have done so. But for me I’m not interested, and I consider this discussion to be who is the GOAT when it comes to F1.
That’s all well and good, but personally I am discussing the greatest F1 driver of all time
As above, you wouldn’t say “who is the greatest runner of all time” or “who is the greatest ball player of all time” or even “who is the greatest skier of all time”. Athletes are measured within their own discipline. Yes they can move to other disciplines quite well in some sports and some motor saving drivers have done so. But for me I’m not interested, and I consider this discussion to be who is the GOAT when it comes to F1.
Not what the title of the thread says
The question is "Is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT"
I was merely, answering that question.
It is not Lewis, nor any other driver who only drove F1, it really cannot be, untill F1 ceases to exist.
Then you can look back at stats and decide who was the greatest.
But untill then, you will only ever come to debate, who is the GSF, Greatest So Far, as there will always be someone come along and set new records.
Not quite the same ring, but far more accurate on every level.
If you wanted to be *that* pedantic, you could argue that “all time” technically doesn’t include future time anyway, by the very fact that he hasn’t happened yet. I’m sure the theoretical physicists or string theory experts (or whatever) can confirm
If you wanted to be *that* pedantic, you could argue that “all time” technically doesn’t include future time anyway, by the very fact that he hasn’t happened yet. I’m sure the theoretical physicists or string theory experts (or whatever) can confirm
Well now, going off topic, but if you want to go that route.
The concept of time is simply an illusion made up of human memories, and misled by human perspective.
In reality, everything that has ever been and ever will be, is happening right now, at this instant, and at every instant, that has ever been, and will ever be.
Think of the block universe, which is supported by Einstein's theory of relativity, as a four-dimensional space-time structure where time is like space.
In that universe, every event, that has happened or will ever happen, has its own individual coordinates, or address, within space-time.
Time is tenseless, all points equally "real," so that future and past are no less real than the present.
In the words of Physicist Max Tegmark.
"So life is like a movie, and space-time is like the DVD.
There's nothing about the DVD itself that is changing in any way, even though there's all this drama unfolding in the movie. We have the illusion, at any given moment, that the past already happened and the future doesn't yet exist, and that things are changing. But all I'm ever aware of is my brain state right now. The only reason I feel like I have a past is that my brain contains memories."
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
Give it a rest guys. It's just a bit of fun 
Soldato
So as Ive said over the last few years it’s all starting to come to fruition.
Lewis at best is a 3X WC , the GOAT -never . Maybe on paper but a paper champion Is just that .
Gifted 4xWC in a car where nothing could even come close at over a second a lap quicker in most races from 2014 through to 2020 with a stooge as a team mate that was brought in after Nico to be nothing but that. Mercedes did nothing for F1 fans for 4 years and I just can’t get behind them for doing it.
A true GOAT would come back with fire in his belly this season after the Max fiasco last year (yes I agree the championship was won under a cloud). Lewis looks beaten already , mentally and performance wise . I called it last year , if he has a decent driver in the other car it would show if he was a really as good as everybody claims .
We will let this seasons results show but I’m predicting he’ll come somewhere around 6th to 10th overall and retire if Mercedes’ can’t get there act together at the end of this season.
Lewis at best is a 3X WC , the GOAT -never . Maybe on paper but a paper champion Is just that .
Gifted 4xWC in a car where nothing could even come close at over a second a lap quicker in most races from 2014 through to 2020 with a stooge as a team mate that was brought in after Nico to be nothing but that. Mercedes did nothing for F1 fans for 4 years and I just can’t get behind them for doing it.
A true GOAT would come back with fire in his belly this season after the Max fiasco last year (yes I agree the championship was won under a cloud). Lewis looks beaten already , mentally and performance wise . I called it last year , if he has a decent driver in the other car it would show if he was a really as good as everybody claims .
We will let this seasons results show but I’m predicting he’ll come somewhere around 6th to 10th overall and retire if Mercedes’ can’t get there act together at the end of this season.
Soldato
So who is your goat and why are they better than Hamilton?
Soldato
Stats say Fangio with a 47% win percentage but he was before my time , but stats as we know can be shown in very different ways.
I don’t have a GOAT as I think goat should be greatest so far not of all time , yes like I’ve said on paper it’s Hamilton. It’s I just can’t get behind him or Mercedes given the absolute joke the 17,18,19,and 20 was for F1 fans and that in turn to me makes him no better than Vettel at best .
Caporegime
I feel sorry for Hamilton. After being robbed last year, he deserved a good crack at putting things right, but his team have let him and Russell down very badly.
Why?
He's at least won a championship in two different cars, and showed himself to be the equal of previous champions in his first season.
Yes, the Merc has been dominant, but then no driver wins loads of F1 world championships without being in the dominant car.
He's more than proved himself as a brilliant driver. The end of last season proved it more than anything else. He did everything right in the last few races against a very fast and competitive max/RB. Max cracked under the pressure in Jeddah and made himself look stupid, but Lewis did everything he needed to do, only for it to be taken away from him due to a rule breaking race director.
Soldato
And I’ve not argued this in anyway what so ever , Lewis and Max are no doubt in a class of there own on the track however we’re asking if he is the GOAT and I’m sorry for the 4 years 17,18,19 and 20 Lewis , Mercedes and F1 were a total joke.
As I said 3XWC , totally gifted 4 .
Soldato
Agreed, shocking, I think merc achieved a lot in the past by throwing people at a problem.
Soldato
They indeed were
That's why how last season ended was so tragic. I thought at the time, that this was likely his last chance at beating Schumacher 's record. Brand new regs, and his age not being on his side , meant that was possibly his last opportunity.
Yeah, exactly.
I think it really is tragic. And the more they flounder this season, the more bitter I (personally) get about it. We had a record breaking champion, he legitimately came back from an awful first half of the season to claw his way back into contention, and rightfully win that magic eight title which would have forever cemented his place as the GOAT (as far as I'm concerned..). And that was absolutely stolen from him. All the naysayers now will look back at Hamilton's career with much more rose-tinted glasses and then finally appreciate what a sportsman he is. To end it like they did in Abu Dhabi is an absolute shocker.
As for the comments about championships being gifted... It's all nonsense. By that argument any driver only wins races because they have the fastest car. You may as well not watch F1 if that's your mindset. To maintain composure and sporting ability for the number of years at the top that Hamilton has is nothing short of amazingly special. Lesser drivers would have won once or twice (*cough* Rosberg) and disappeared.