Is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT (this thread is about Lewis as an F1 driver, not anything else)?

I think Hamilton will be appreciated more when he retires than he does now.

I can’t comprehend that as soon as he has a car that’s miles off the pace it’s enough “evidence” for some that he’s not a world class driver.

I dont see the same criticism of Alonso when he was not even in the points with McHonda.
 
Hamilton’s without doubt the greatest driver of his generation and of the hybrid era. Definitely one of the best drivers of all time, but like Schumacher, he had had a totally dominant car for 6-7 seasons.

If we’re talking F1 GOATs, the late great John Surtees has to get a mention for winning world championships on both 4 and 2 wheels.
 
SPG said:
The results are important absolutely and i cant deny his ability but off the sporting field personality and how you carry yourself counts. Off the race track Hamilton is a bit of arse in my opinion and hence no GOAT from me.
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I won't deny he went through a bit of a phase when he was dating the Pussycat doll, but right now he's absolutely the definition of a modern role model. He has done tremendous charity work, work for diversity and human rights (not just within the sport), and holds himself in public in such a classy way in comparison to most other sports people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hamilton#Public_image_and_influence

If you don't like his fashion sense, or haircut then fine. But to call him an arse is rather disingenuous in my opinion. Just compare his wiki page to MV's. Oh look, MV doesn't even have an influence/charity/etc. section. lol...

Terminal_Boy said:
If we’re talking F1 GOATs, the late great John Surtees has to get a mention for winning world championships on both 4 and 2 wheels.
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Cool. So who's the best bat and ball player ever? Roger Federer? Barry Bonds? Shane Warne? Or what about the best runner, I think Usain Bolt is pretty good but then again he never bothered with a marathon so maybe he's not all that good afterall :rolleyes:
 
I don't think there is a GOAT in formula 1, there's a lot of great drivers out there with some fantastic records but unfortunately the ones most highly spoken of, Schumacher / Hamilton etc, have only done so well because they had by far the best car and poor team mates. I reckon I would have won 4-5 drivers titles if my team mates were Rosberg/Bottas and I was given a Mercedes.

he's done really well and is a huge talent, but GOAT? Not a chance.
 
Scam said:
Yeah, exactly.

I think it really is tragic. And the more they flounder this season, the more bitter I (personally) get about it. We had a record breaking champion, he legitimately came back from an awful first half of the season to claw his way back into contention, and rightfully win that magic eight title which would have forever cemented his place as the GOAT (as far as I'm concerned..). And that was absolutely stolen from him. All the naysayers now will look back at Hamilton's career with much more rose-tinted glasses and then finally appreciate what a sportsman he is. To end it like they did in Abu Dhabi is an absolute shocker.

As for the comments about championships being gifted... It's all nonsense. By that argument any driver only wins races because they have the fastest car. You may as well not watch F1 if that's your mindset. To maintain composure and sporting ability for the number of years at the top that Hamilton has is nothing short of amazingly special. Lesser drivers would have won once or twice (*cough* Rosberg) and disappeared.
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@robfosters summed it up as Scam does, reminds me of Hill in '94. Hill handled the situation with dignity.

I always believe in Karma and what comes around will come around, watching this season so far is painful.
 
Scam said:
Just curious why people insist on comparing totally different sports, is all.
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It is not comparing different sports.

It is saying saying someone who can compete and be world champion in different sports, all be it very similar sports, is by definition, way better than someone who only ever wins in just one sport.
 
Entai said:
It is not comparing different sports.

It is saying saying someone who can compete and be world champion in different sports, all be it very similar sports, is by definition, way better than someone who only ever wins in just one sport.
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I accept that, but it’s always been clear to me that the thread is about who is the GOAT in F1. Maybe the thread title needs changing?

If somebody started a thread asking “is Ronaldo the GOAT?” you wouldn’t have people piling in and suggesting Ian Botham, or Michael Jordan would you? I don’t understand the confusion. Just seems people want to be so blind to Hamilton’s achievements that they’re just clutching at straws.
 
Scam said:
I accept that, but it’s always been clear to me that the thread is about who is the GOAT in F1. Maybe the thread title needs changing?

If somebody started a thread asking “is Ronaldo the GOAT?” you wouldn’t have people piling in and suggesting Ian Botham, or Michael Jordan would you? I don’t understand the confusion. Just seems people want to be so blind to Hamilton’s achievements that they’re just clutching at straws.
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We're hardly suggesting Hamilton needs to win Wimbledon or anything ridiculous. A couple of us have mentioned John Surtees, and his record will likely never be matched, but in my opinion a driver shouldn't have to win at MotoGP or the Isle of Man TT to be considered a great - that one will stay unique to Surtees', but it doesn't necessarily make him the greatest on four wheels (others opinions may vary, and that's fine too).

As I've said, my choice of GOAT, Jim Clark, isn't down to him being successful in other categories (that merely cements how good he was), it's because he was epic in F1 and made some drives no other driver has done.

The obvious example isn't even a race he won. Fell a lap down at Monza (then a slipstreaming fest) after pitting for a puncture, unlapped himself and (without a consistent slipstream) gained another lap on the leaders to retake the lead and motor onwards only to run out of fuel on the last lap and coast over the line in third. All on a track with only four real corners back then.

While a driver might in the future win from a lap down with red flags or safety cars, no driver has ever done it on pace alone.



As you like your stats, how about this one: Clark only ever finished second once. 72 F1 races and 25 wins before his untimely death and he only finished second one single time.
 
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this_is_gav said:
We're hardly suggesting Hamilton needs to win Wimbledon or anything ridiculous. A couple of us have mentioned John Surtees, and his record will likely never be matched, but in my opinion a driver shouldn't have to win at MotoGP or the Isle of Man TT to be considered a great - that one will stay unique to Surtees', but it doesn't necessarily make him the greatest on four wheels (others opinions may vary, and that's fine too).

As I've said, my choice of GOAT, Jim Clark, isn't down to him being successful in other categories (that merely cements how good he was), it's because he was epic in F1 and made some drives no other driver has done.

The obvious example isn't even a race he won. Fell a lap down at Monza (then a slipstreaming fest) after pitting for a puncture, unlapped himself and (without a consistent slipstream) gained another lap on the leaders to retake the lead and motor onwards only to run out of fuel on the last lap and coast over the line in third. All on a track with only four real corners back then.

While a driver might in the future win from a lap down with red flags or safety cars, no driver has ever done it on pace alone.



As you like your stats, how about this one: Clark only ever finished second once. 72 F1 races and 25 wins before his untimely death and he only finished second one single time.
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This is all a bit silly. A racing driver rarely quits the literal pinnacle of motorsport until he's old/too slow/doesn't have a seat for it, because....well its the pinnacle of motorsport.
 
Scam said:
I accept that, but it’s always been clear to me that the thread is about who is the GOAT in F1. Maybe the thread title needs changing?

If somebody started a thread asking “is Ronaldo the GOAT?” you wouldn’t have people piling in and suggesting Ian Botham, or Michael Jordan would you? I don’t understand the confusion. Just seems people want to be so blind to Hamilton’s achievements that they’re just clutching at straws.
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Indeed maybe the thread title does need changing, and maybe the definition of GOAT needs clarifying.

We are in the Motorsport forum.

The thread is titled "Is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT"

Obviously thread title then enquiring is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT of Motorsport.

And the answer is extremely clearly NO.

No one is saying Hamilton is a bad driver, he is an extremely good driver, but in no way is he, or will he ever be, the GOAT of motorsport, or F1.

To me, to become the GOAT by any meanigful metric, a driver must hold a record that can never ever beaten, evee again, thus making them the Greatest Of ALL TIME.


Every stat where Lewis is currently number one, could obe day in the future be beaten one day by another driver. How many people thought Schumacher's records would never be beaten, yet they have.


As I have said previously the GOAT of Motorsport is clearly John Surtees, his record will never be beaten, as he is the only one ever to be world champion in two different forms of Motorsport.


IF you want to change thread to who is the GOAT of F1.

Then again that answer is very simple

It is Juan Manuel Fangio.

Again with a record that will never be beaten.

World Champion five times in four different teams.

We have had a few (Prost, Schumacher, Hamilton) becoming World Champion in two different teams, but no one will ever do it in four teams again.

So whichever way you word it Hamilton is a great driver, but never the GOAT.
 
Entai said:
Indeed maybe the thread title does need changing, and maybe the definition of GOAT needs clarifying.

We are in the Motorsport forum.

The thread is titled "Is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT"

Obviously thread title then enquiring is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT of Motorsport.

And the answer is extremely clearly NO.

No one is saying Hamilton is a bad driver, he is an extremely good driver, but in no way is he, or will he ever be, the GOAT of motorsport, or F1.

To me, to become the GOAT by any meanigful metric, a driver must hold a record that can never ever beaten, evee again, thus making them the Greatest Of ALL TIME.


Every stat where Lewis is currently number one, could obe day in the future be beaten one day by another driver. How many people thought Schumacher's records would never be beaten, yet they have.


As I have said previously the GOAT of Motorsport is clearly John Surtees, his record will never be beaten, as he is the only one ever to be world champion in two different forms of Motorsport.


IF you want to change thread to who is the GOAT of F1.

Then again that answer is very simple

It is Juan Manuel Fangio.

Again with a record that will never be beaten.

World Champion five times in four different teams.

We have had a few (Prost, Schumacher, Hamilton) becoming World Champion in two different teams, but no one will ever do it in four teams again.

So whichever way you word it Hamilton is a great driver, but never the GOAT.
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Imo Lewis Hamilton is the GOAT of f1 and that's my opinion.

Not fact. It can never be fact even if Lewis wins an 8th title
 
Entai said:
Indeed maybe the thread title does need changing, and maybe the definition of GOAT needs clarifying.

We are in the Motorsport forum.

The thread is titled "Is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT"

Obviously thread title then enquiring is Lewis Hamilton the GOAT of Motorsport.

And the answer is extremely clearly NO.

No one is saying Hamilton is a bad driver, he is an extremely good driver, but in no way is he, or will he ever be, the GOAT of motorsport, or F1.

To me, to become the GOAT by any meanigful metric, a driver must hold a record that can never ever beaten, evee again, thus making them the Greatest Of ALL TIME.


Every stat where Lewis is currently number one, could obe day in the future be beaten one day by another driver. How many people thought Schumacher's records would never be beaten, yet they have.


As I have said previously the GOAT of Motorsport is clearly John Surtees, his record will never be beaten, as he is the only one ever to be world champion in two different forms of Motorsport.


IF you want to change thread to who is the GOAT of F1.

Then again that answer is very simple

It is Juan Manuel Fangio.

Again with a record that will never be beaten.

World Champion five times in four different teams.

We have had a few (Prost, Schumacher, Hamilton) becoming World Champion in two different teams, but no one will ever do it in four teams again.

So whichever way you word it Hamilton is a great driver, but never the GOAT.
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Out of interest do you have Asperger's? It might explain a lot and why everything gets taken so literally/pedantically.
 
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