ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[RoboCod]

Remind me, who is it who has dropped barrel bombs and chemical weapons on his own people? Assad has killed around 10 times as many people as ISIS have in Syria. Assad is a brutal tyrant of the worst kind. He is a monster willing to slaughter his own people to keep his grip on power.

And if you think this post is somehow a defence of ISIS, learn to think.

Oh you big defender of Jihadists you!

Yep, it's that binary to some people.

 

[RoboCod]

Peaceful protesters as a rule, don't run around with AK-47s.

Im amazed we keep chasing around the roundabout of the same old points, the record player is broke.

Peaceful protesters were peaceful, until Assad forces started to kill them for voicing an opinion that Assad did not like. Rather than step down, he took up arms against them.... Guess what follows?

 

[RoboCod]

"lol"

 

[RoboCod]

Can't have been that tiny considering the thousands of causalites. I'm further amazed that just because it was "a tiny number" then it is quite fine to condone executing them it would seem.

Strange, we don't execute minority protesters in our democratic country. You'd have thought Syria would be the same, given your account of the country.

 

[RoboCod]

so where is the military action by the west in Egypt? or against Saudi arabia for the thousands they killed in the arab spring?

or , as I have said - its ok when its `our` dictator....

Once again (like a dozen times??) we skip over the point that several of you condone Assad executing thousands of his own. Have you considered a career in politics? Politicians side step issues with BS too.

 

[RoboCod]

I haven't seen anyone condone that yet.

But just as a note, the claimed figure of dead between the start of the violent protests and the outbreak of the armed uprising is ~1000 civilians and 150 soldiers and policemen, not thousands.

Citation needed and er yes, your very language suggests you are in favour of Assad slapping down those who oppose him. It's only a tiny amount though right, so it doesn't matter does it? Needs to do what he needs to do, doesn't he?

 

[RoboCod]

how is the police kettling the miners at orgreave then charging them with horses , and interning hundreds of them any different?


or bloody sunday?

Keep side stepping!

 

[RoboCod]

`the enemy of my enemy is my friend` whilst they give us oil.....

why do you support the terrorists , I mean rebels

Who do you support? (apart from Assad, clearly).

 

[RoboCod]

The world is not binary.

Im sure that's my line, numerous times in this thread

Anyhow, like you said, why should Assad step down? You haven't deplored any of his actions, so we'll take it you're a supporter of dictators, fascism and killing your own to overcome opposition. I mean, I would have thought that the suitable answer for a leader would be to enter in discussion on any issue. Oh well!

 

[RoboCod]

What more do you think he could have done out of interest?

Like I said, engage in talks and not kill them? Wouldn't that be a good starting point?

 

[RoboCod]

Are you having some kind of breakdown, RoboCod?

No, I'm chipper thanks. Are you alright?

 

[RoboCod]

I want to be in the circle

 

[RoboCod]

So what is your solution? Hand Syria over to the rebels? That worked well in Libya didn't it.

I've already stated I don't see a solution. What's yours? Is it, have Assad carry on executing thousands of his own? Another sympathiser is it?

And I'm the one being asked if I'm having a breakdown do any of you people live in the real world, outside of this forum?

All I read are CTs, nonsense and a mind set that is easy to bleat sat at the monitor of your uber gaming rigs.

 

[RoboCod]

Assad doesnt have a policy of killing anything other than a rebellion of his rule, which is justified regardless of his evils.

 

[RoboCod]

TBH I think Assad is the lesser of the evils yes. Just look at Iraq and Libya where the "rebels" won and the state security apparatus were intentionally destroyed. It's not an ideal solution but it is likely to make a more secure and peaceful country for at least the short to medium term.

I don't condone his actions, but neither do I condone those on the other side.

As I said years ago (and you'll find quotes if you want about this), I think the rebels and west should have allowed Assad and his government to abdicate, or at the very least enter legitimate dialogue. Instead we insisted Assad must fall and "answer for his crimes" (execution) and the rebels refused to enter peace talks that involved Assad not being executed/removed from power - in part probably because they thought the west would enter the fight and we would end up with a situation like Libya and Iraq, where both governments were toppled by the west and leaders executed.

Obviously that option has now passed, but I'm not going to condone the meatheadedness of both sides during a period that could have given us legitimate pause to this war.

As for the real world - interesting coming from someone that doesn't know what the solution is, just that Assad must go... I'd also be interested to know what CTs you think I'm backing here?

I respect your views Amp, I find your posts come across as considered, I'll take the time to read them properly rather than instantly dismiss them based on your username. The CT comment was a generalisation, perhaps not so much aimed at yourself.

As for a solution though, I defy you come up with a reasonable one! I maybe take some umbrage to your implication that I don't understand the real world just because I don't have a solution. This is because I see the solution quite hopeless, especially as it seems the majority of people seem to have the mindset of regression is the key. Even you state short - medium term goals when really that isn't good enough it that is going to be the world's view. It should be long term, progress. Iron fist rulers are not the answer. Most, if not all, nations have endured a period of anarchy and then reform. Whatever the overall outcome, the silly "book vs book" interpretation war we currently have is not it!

 

[RoboCod]

GW2 - the USA didn't imagine blowing up the country and being left to pick up the pieces - they assumed *someone* would step up and take over , but being pro west.

sadly that someone ended up being `some people` not 1 and an on going ideology based civil war which some say started in 2003

But you of all people know the ideology based war that exists throughout the entire region has existed for centuries. The super power was Shia Persia, now it's Sunni Saudi.

 

[RoboCod]

Yes of course - which is why I have no damn clue WHY the west wants to meddle


oh wait

OIL.

You're going to try and apply the moral high ground when living in your comfortable oil driven western life style? Are you going to give all of that up tomorrow for a resolution?

I find your perspective to be hypocritical

 

[RoboCod]

stop trying to justify invading other peoples countries and killing innocents just to steal resources, i find your perspective evil!

who are you to talk about morals.

people like you have no concept of morality.

your worse than a burglar.

Until we have a society that is sustainable by other means that is the way it is, it's the way of the world and for a long time has been. I'm just accepting of the world I'm born into, I'm not foolish enough to belive little old me can do diddly squat to change that.

 

[RoboCod]

only scum like to rob their neighbours to feed their habits.

and those who justify murder for the same reasons are far worse.

like i said earlier you have no morals, bet your the type of person who would pick his friends pocket and then boast about it.

karmas a bitch hope it bites you on the ass.

no doubt you will get your comeuppance sooner or later.

I went out last night with friends and acquired 4 mates wallets, an old man's jacket and some young lads car. I also managed to punch some Doris in the face. All in all, a great night.

to quote a stereotype - you are from the north so strong in the arm and thick in the head

Maybe he is from the south but located in the north now, but if we're going on location bias,... Eastbourne?! This must mean you're depressed and 93yrs old

 

[RoboCod]

Just a note, in the wake of the western cries for his head Assad did instigate further electoral reform in 2014 (though it's unknown if it had been planned since 2010 or not).

Prior to 2014 the people of syria elected a government (in this case a coalition lead by the Baath party) every four years and then the government elected it's own leader (this had been Assad since 2000 as he led the largest governmental party) every 7 years.

In 2014 this was changed and the people were allowed to directly elect the president themselves independently of electing the government.

This is actually a MORE open democracy than we have in the UK! (where we elect the government and the majority party's leader becomes our prime minister).

So much MORE democracy, yet 166th out of 167 on the democracy index

http://www.yabiladi.com/img/content/EIU-Democracy-Index-2015.pdf