ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

scorza said:
That's been the UK's position from the start. Just think, if Assad had done the decent thing and gone into exile with his billions then all this mess may have been averted.
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Well maybe it would have turned out comparatively well (perhaps only a minor humanitarian crisis such as Libya is experiencing rather than full blown carastrophe), or maybe other groups would have risen up in the power vacuum and the war would be even more brutal, or maybe IS would have taken over and now be ruling peacefully and justly.... Imo the only peaceful path would have involved diplomatic efforts by other countries.

scorza said:
I read this morning that the Syrian armed force have killed more civilians that the Islamic State have.
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Sorry, I can't help but be sceptical. The Syrian civil war is pretty chaotic and if that wasn't enough there's all the political bias too (remember a while back when we were being told how the valiant rebels were rising up with a popular majority to overthrow Assad's brutal regime, and how ridiculously quickly they had members labeled as legitimate representatives of Syria despite essentially being just another militia?). I just don't believe that any statement like that can be backed up properly. Also, Assad has a track record of being a not particularly brutal leader in the grand scheme of things, while ISIS have tack track record of being very brutal.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but trying to install yet another weak West-backed 'democracy' in a complicated and chaotic middle eastern country while overthrowing existing structures just doesn't seem like a good idea. But then I doubt any of our Syrian foreign policy has been guided by the best interests of Syrians.
 
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arknor said:
Russia isn't like us they won't be restricted by combat rules that put them at risk
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I'm not so sure, as much as I hate the Islamic State I have to admit they are very competent strategically and tactically. These are basically the same guys who went toe-to-toe with the USMC at Fallujah and lasted 6 weeks despite being outnumbered by almost 2:1. Few would argue that the Russian infantry was anywhere near as capable as the USMC.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/11/-sp-isis-the-inside-story

Interesting article on the creation of ISIS, from it's inception inside a US Jail to it's growth in Iraq and eventual crossing of the border into Syria.

In the summer of 2004, a young jihadist in shackles and chains was walked by his captors slowly into the Camp Bucca prison in southern Iraq. He was nervous as two American soldiers led him through three brightly-lit buildings and then a maze of wire corridors, into an open yard, where men with middle-distance stares, wearing brightly-coloured prison uniforms, stood back warily, watching him.

“I knew some of them straight away,” he told me last month. “I had feared Bucca all the way down on the plane. But when I got there, it was much better than I thought. In every way.”

The jihadist, who uses the nom de guerre Abu Ahmed, entered Camp Bucca as a young man a decade ago, and is now a senior official within Islamic State (Isis) – having risen through its ranks with many of the men who served time alongside him in prison. Like him, the other detainees had been snatched by US soldiers from Iraq’s towns and cities and flown to a place that had already become infamous: a foreboding desert fortress that would shape the legacy of the US presence in Iraq.
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Freakbro said:
'they were planning attacks' and you all lap it up!
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I look forward to hearing that the British IS fighters had their fingers poised over the button which would trigger WMDs within 45 minutes ...or something.

Otherwise we might as well bomb Syria back to the stone age in pre-emptive self defence. Solve IS and the refugee problem in one go.

One thing I predict with great sadness: that our government will adopt the phrase 'extra-judicial killing' with a straight face. See if I am wrong.
 
So guys, should we leave Mohammed Emwaz alone in the desert then and let him carry on his head cutting off HD show, since he is a British and everything we can't kill him or anything right?
 
Anyone seen the documentary on c4? Volunteers from the UK that have gone over to fight ISIS with Kurdish forces on the frontline

Insane. Not for money, also lack of protection such as helmets and probably kevlar.
 
Yeah there are numerous people who head over to support the Kurdish Peshmerga and fight alongside. I'm not sure what to make of it but it's dangerous and they are brave. For starters you're not quite sure you're being duped and lured into ISIL hands until you get there.
 
I knew there were volunteers but iv not seen any footage until now, on the brave scale that's for sure.

Most of them sign up through facebook, that takes a lot of trust until you get there, then the risky business starts.
 
Was there not some American guy, ex marine corps iirc who was recruiting ex western forces members via facebook? Kinda similair to the Balkans conflict where sizeable numbers volunteered for the Croatian forces.
 
UK drone strikes subject to legal challenge by Greens

The use of drones to kill UK citizens abroad is being legally challenged by two Green Party members of Parliament.

Earlier this month, David Cameron announced an RAF-operated drone had killed two Britons linked to so-called Islamic State in Syria, describing the action as an "act of self defence".

MP Caroline Lucas and Baroness Jones have now sought a judicial review of the policy, claiming that "targeted killing" is unlawful.

It is backed by campaigners Reprieve.
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Well done them I say.
 
scorza said:
You sometimes wonder if the Green Party aren't actually secret supporters of the Islamic State. Only thing that doesn't surprise me about this is that jihadi-front charity Caged isn't in on the legal action. Still more $$$ for Phil Shiner and co at taxpayers expense I expect.
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Unusual for the green party to be so totally opposite to what most people think.
 
joeyjojo said:
UK drone strikes subject to legal challenge by Greens



Well done them I say.
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What a waste of time and money. Do you know what will happen in this case? Questions will be asked such as "how did you target these people?" and "how was the intelligence gathered?" and the response will be "I can't answer that".

The conclusion of the whole case will be, these were bad people, plotting bad things against the UK and it's people. It was for the safety of the UK people that these men were killed as there was no other feasible solution to remove the threat.

Bookmark this comment, come back to it months later when the money and time has been wasted.

Green party, what a bunch of absolute **** tards.
 
I wouldn’t even care if it were the 3 teenage girls from London, in a field, alone, and unarmed. If you watch an ISIS snuff vid and then go to expense and risk to travel half way across the globe to be a part of it, you’re a legit target as far as I’m concerned.
 
RoboCod said:
The conclusion of the whole case will be, these were bad people, plotting bad things against the UK and it's people. It was for the safety of the UK people that these men were killed as there was no other feasible solution to remove the threat.
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That's not what the case is arguing. If you'd read the story you might have noticed:

But Ms Lucas and Baroness Jones - the party's sole representatives in Parliament - say there has been a lack of parliamentary scrutiny or approval of the policy and argue there have been conflicting and partial accounts of the justification in statements.

In a letter to the Ministry of Defence and the attorney general's office, they argue that the government has either failed to formulate a policy or, if it has a policy, failed to publish it. Either eventuality, they argue, is unlawful.

"If any pre-authorised and targeted killing can be lawful, they must be carried out under a formulated and published Targeted Killing Policy which ensures transparency, clarity and accountability for such use of lethal force," the letter says.
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They're arguing that a handful of ministers making decisions like this circumvents parliament and the law and is therefore unlawful. Not exactly controversial and it's absolutely right someone should call Cameron out on it, lest we end up raising him to a position similar to the one Obama holds where he's allowed to give out death sentences willy-nilly.
 
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