ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Freakbro said:
That's without even taking into account we only voted to extend operations into Syria, and only eastern Syria iirc, in Dec 15, our focus was still on tackling IS in Iraq. The ROE that the RAF was under, ie: no civilian casualties, of which there had been none reported in this 1000 IS deaths. And since this is guerrilla warfare, where the militants either blend in civilian areas and certainly don't stand round in large armed forces with targets on their head or as people love to keep pointing out, use civilians as human shields, then all of a sudden it becomes blindingly obvious why there isn't masses of IS casualties from airstrikes.

But no, lets just latch on to a number (without the slightest thought or context of what that number represents) and think it shows we're actually in bed with ISIS....:rolleyes: notwithstanding the same people criticise the west when they kill civilians as collateral damage in attacks are now criticising them for not killing civilians as collateral damage...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Damned if do, damned if don't. It's futile debating with the shillbots. Mind you, it's not like the shillbots are offering much of a counter argument, they seem to be firmly in the ignoring me mode. Nonetheless, that doesn't bother me and I'll continue to post counter points because despite me not caring what delusion shillbot actually wants to push, I'd like to think the majority of normal forum dwellers can identify fantasy Vs reality.
 
Evangelion said:
The Syrian civil war is a messy, local conflict between primitive, barbarian Arab tribesmen. It has nothing to do with the West, and we should stay the hell out of it.
Click to expand...

"[P]rimitive, barbarian"? Before the conflict, Syria was a successful, second world Middle Eastern company. Not as rich as the UK or other Western nations but hardly "barbarian". Syrian's mostly had mobile phones, for example.
 
As mentioned previously in an Asia Times article, in November 2015, Afek Oil and Gas, a subsidiary of the US company Genie Energy, discovered an oil bonanza in the Golan Heights “with the potential of billions of barrels.” Genie Energy, boasting an advisory board studded with former US cabinet officials, managed to obtain exploratory licenses despite opposition from environmental and local groups concerned that drilling could pollute the Golan countryside and the Sea of Galilee below, the source of most of Israel’s drinking water. However, the biggest problems revolve around the issue of sovereignty.

Israel annexed much of the Golan in 1981, but it is still regarded internationally as illegally occupied Syrian territory. Israel’s leaders had previously offered to pull back from the Golan, which was captured in 1967, in return for a comprehensive peace treaty with the Syrian government. However, since Syria began disintegrating in 2011, there are efforts to demand recognition of Israeli control of the 1,200 square kilometers it occupies in the Golan Heights.

Indeed, Israel has intensified its defense of the Golan. Last June, when a mortar shell landed in the Golan, the Israeli air force attacked Syrian army positions in the village of Samadanieh al Sharqiyah in Quneitra province. In February, after its F-16 crashed in Syria, Israeli airstrikes took out half of Syria’s air defense and fired ground-to-ground rockets from the Golan Heights. It also supports rebel groups as a buffer force to keep the Syrian army and Iran-backed Hezbollah at bay.

Partition Syria

By maintaining a US military presence in Syria and partitioning the country into spheres of influence similar to China in the 19th century, it would facilitate Israeli annexation of the Golan and allow US/Israeli energy companies to exploit the oil reserves.

In the case of Syria, the US would be in the northeast, Turkey in the northwest, Russia and Iran in the coastal area and large parts of the Syrian desert, Israel and Jordan in the southwest, according to a partition plan by RAND Corporation and first published by the German newspaper Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten.

cUB0jOP.png

http://www.atimes.com/partition-syria-us-israel-eye-golan-heights-oil/
Click to expand...
 
Rroff said:
Anyone can just re-post verbatim information from an external source though
Click to expand...

Yes. It also takes a special kind of person to single out one that is relevant, when there is no habitual pattern of it, and falsely claim it constitutes spam, and thereby begin to hypocritically spam the thread and take away from the discussion.

Any further issues which you feel requires you to call out behaviour instead of content, please take it to the Mods. It is an interesting discussion and I don't want to be a part of distracting from it further.
 
Danny75 said:
Yes. It also takes a special kind of person to single out one that is relevant, when there is no habitual pattern of it, and falsely claim it constitutes spam, and thereby begin to hypocritically spam the thread and take away from the discussion.

Any further issues which you feel requires you to call out behaviour instead of content, please take it to the Mods. It is an interesting discussion and I don't want to be a part of distracting from it further.
Click to expand...

I did consider reporting the post but didn't think it would have been entirely justified - was hoping to prod something a bit more constructive. Same with the other thread where you seem to have resorted to just posting trivia verbatim.

RoboCod said:
It isn't.
Click to expand...

I actually find it interesting as to the origins of what has happened in Syria - unfortunately it is almost impossible to get a good debate on it as it largely descends into tribal behaviour LOL with people mostly polarised between swallowing MSM type perspective whole or "Its all the West's fault" and no actual open minded thought on it.

It doesn't take 2 minutes of objective googling to find the reasoning is far more complex.
 
Rroff said:
Same with the other thread where you seem to have resorted to just posting trivia verbatim.
Click to expand...

That's your interpretation. However, I take it you mean the thread, where, after taking the time to answer many questions, not a single person has shown the courtesy to reply to a single question of mine?

Which is (and I'll elaborate on it here):

If it were true that findings from the Swiss OPCW laboratory regarding the presence of BZ in the samples, were omitted from the OPCW member-state report and executive summary, do you feel that it should be kept unconfirmed, or secret, from the British public, including the Metropolitan police carrying out the Salisbury investigation, who should expect complete cooperation and full disclosure from the OPCW?



Rroff said:
I actually find it interesting as to the origins of what has happened in Syria - unfortunately it is almost impossible to get a good debate on it as it largely descends into tribal behaviour LOL with people mostly polarised between swallowing MSM type perspective whole or "Its all the West's fault" and no actual open minded thought on it.
Click to expand...

I agree. And indulgement in propaganda between forum members, replicating the propaganda war outside of it. I think the way out of it, is to give a little, to get a little. Or just keep bashing the other side if people prefer. Freewill.



Rroff said:
It doesn't take 2 minutes of objective googling to find the reasoning is far more complex.
Click to expand...

Concur. Note I never claimed "this is (all) of it". It just very quickly dismantles the precept of it being just a local tribesman thing, and in my opinion, contains much food for thought about the moves being made in Syria, by plenty of players.
 
So a lot of videos are cropping up of the survivors now at evac camps. Im confused....
I was always under the impression that these were people that were literally trapped in their city due to shelling and constant military presence.

I dont understand how they suddenly got out? I assume the Syrian government let them leave as they have made a point? I understand rebels remained after the Syrian governments first offensive and negotiations failed...but Im assuming the government has just given them a second chance after the bombing earlier this week?

Im finding it hard to establish who were rebels and just innocent families stuck..
 
iamtheoneneo said:
So a lot of videos are cropping up of the survivors now at evac camps. Im confused....
I was always under the impression that these were people that were literally trapped in their city due to shelling and constant military presence.

I dont understand how they suddenly got out? I assume the Syrian government let them leave as they have made a point? I understand rebels remained after the Syrian governments first offensive and negotiations failed...but Im assuming the government has just given them a second chance after the bombing earlier this week?

Im finding it hard to establish who were rebels and just innocent families stuck..
Click to expand...

Army of Islam was the last group to remain, there was reports, that a lot of the group wanted to take the first deals offered by Syria/Russia but the hardcore members rejected that and executed them.

In the end, a deal was worked out and the Army of Islam and their families plus others who didn't want to stay was evacuated to northern Syria in a deal made with the Syrian and Russian governments.

All the other groups took the deals at the beginning.

Survivors, displaced civilians from Douma and prisoners that the Army of Islam held was moved to safe camps, I presume to rehouse at a later date.
 
Last edited:
We have to accept that we can't fix everything, and it's not our job to do so. The West should never have intervened in Syria without UN support.

Operation Desert Storm should be our benchmark: it was fully approved by the UN, it was limited to kicking Iraq out of Kuwait, and it made no attempt at regime change or long term occupation. As a result, it was wildly successful. Hussein received full support from the predictably opportunistic Palestinian Liberation Organisation, but nobody else was stupid enough to take his side, which kept the list of combatants to a manageable number. The West was united in its decision to act, Hussein's invasion was completely shut down in just 6 weeks, and Kuwait's Palestinians got the violent kicking they so richly deserved.

Syria is a completely different story. Assad is backed by Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah. The rebels are fighting Assad's army, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and a bunch of other lunatics. Russia has waged a highly successful propaganda campaign to increase the fog of war, the West cannot agree on an appropriate response, the UN has not sanctioned military action against Syria, and the UNSC is paralysed because Russia and China are using their veto powers to block any resolution that might drag the entire flaming mess towards a sensible outcome.

As harsh as this may sound, the Syrian Civil War is not a problem we have any obligation to resolve, nor do we have the means to resolve it appropriately. The most we can do is to repeat calls for diplomacy, and embrace the refugees.

We also have to remember that we're not dealing with a civilised nation here. These people are savages. If it wasn't for the many technological innovations gifted to them by the West, they'd still be living in tents, marrying their six year old daughters to 50 year old men, and stoning women for the sin of trying to assert their independence.

Even the rebels are just a different flavour of barbarian, and like Assad, they have used chemical weapons. We can give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are 'not as bad as Assad', but that's still a pretty low bar.

IronWarrior said:
Douma is now
Click to expand...

...back in the hands of Assad's ruthless dictatorship.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom