ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

ubersonic said:
Giving the Taliban anti air missiles (and Rambo) to help them against Russia, and that in no way came back to haunt the US lol.
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Taliban didn't exist during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan - before you say it, neither did the US arm, train or provide support to Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.

Tefal said:
publicly you mean.

i think there have been enough incidents such as Iran contra to show that we don't publicly say all the arms deals we do...
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/shrug - can't comment on something with no evidence. It's not like other countries don't behave in similar ways either.
 
scorza said:
Taliban didn't exist during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan
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They may not have been going by the name Taliban but they most certainly did lol, they were one of the groups of Mujahideen fighters the US armed/trained (one of the larger ones hence them later taking over the country).


scorza said:
before you say it, neither did the US arm, train or provide support to Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan
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Not sure why you are disputing this admitted fact, Osama was a friend of the US before he turned on them.
 
ubersonic said:
They may not have been going by the name Taliban but they most certainly did lol, they were one of the groups of Mujahideen fighters the US armed/trained (one of the larger ones hence them later taking over the country).
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So in other words the US didn't arm and train the Taliban. Glad we've established that then. The Taliban were armed and trained by Pakistan ISI in the '90s.

ubersonic said:
Not sure why you are disputing this admitted fact, Osama was a friend of the US before he turned on them.
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Who admitted this 'fact'?
 
scorza said:
So in other words the US didn't arm and train the Taliban.
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I'm not trying to take the mick here, but did Caitlyn Jenner have to re-take the driving test, or did she get Bruce's transferred? Did Lord Voldemort exist before his twenties?

Changing your name does not erase your history, the artists currently referred to as the Taliban were armed/trained by the US in Afghanistan during the 1980's while they were fighting against the USSR.



scorza said:
Who admitted this 'fact'?
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Robin Cook (UK foreign secretary), Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (who was personally thanked by Bin Laden for assisting in his meeting with the US representatives), and the BBC (you may have heard of them).



Tefal said:
I thought the us converted pretty ouch all its dumb bombs to JDAMS?
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True, however if you drop a large amount of bombs on an area then it's carpet bombing, it doesn't matter if they were guided to hit roughly that area, it's still not a precision strike just because 1:20 hits the thing you wanted to take out.
 
ubersonic said:
I'm not trying to take the mick here, but did Caitlyn Jenner have to re-take the driving test, or did she get Bruce's transferred? Did Lord Voldemort exist before his twenties?

Changing your name does not erase your history, the artists currently referred to as the Taliban were armed/trained by the US in Afghanistan during the 1980's while they were fighting against the USSR.
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What the hell are you blithering on about Voldemort and some ghastly reality TV personality for? Guess what - the Taliban were formed with Afghan people of Pashtun ethnicity - so it's not exactly surprising that they have a history which involves fighting against the Russian aggressor. That does not mean the Taliban fought against the Russians - it's literally impossible for that to have happened unless someone invented a time machine because the Taliban did not exist when the Russians were occupying Afghanistan.

ubersonic said:
Robin Cook (UK foreign secretary), Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (who was personally thanked by Bin Laden for assisting in his meeting with the US representatives), and the BBC (you may have heard of them).
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Yeah I read those claims on wikipedia too - somewhat flimsy compared with the arguments against wouldn't you say?
 
ubersonic said:
Giving the Taliban anti air missiles (and Rambo) to help them against Russia, and that in no way came back to haunt the US lol.
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Actually the Stingers are interesting because they did not come back to haunt the US - thanks to the buyback plan - a grand total of 0 US planes shot down by US Stingers

but yeah keep flogging that Mujahideen = Taliban horse
 
scorza said:
What the hell are you blithering on about Voldemort and some ghastly reality TV personality for?
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It's called an analogy, you seemed to be struggling with basic English so I figured simple examples that even a child could understand my help you.



scorza said:
it's literally impossible for that to have happened unless someone invented a time machine because the Taliban did not exist when the Russians were occupying Afghanistan.
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So what you are saying then, is that the Taliban just spontaneously appeared on earth, fully grown, trained, and battle hardened?

That the people who fought in Afghanistan who would later be known as the Taliban, are in fact completely different beings?



scorza said:
Yeah I read those claims on wikipedia too - somewhat flimsy compared with the arguments against wouldn't you say?
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Haven't read what you have, but no the arguments against will not have any substance to them because it's true. Generally when the BBC, British politicians, the SA royal family, and declassified CIA documents (Google Operation Cyclone) all say something and the White House denies it, it's the White House that's lying.
 
scorza said:
What the hell are you blithering on about Voldemort and some ghastly reality TV personality for? Guess what - the Taliban were formed with Afghan people of Pashtun ethnicity - so it's not exactly surprising that they have a history which involves fighting against the Russian aggressor. That does not mean the Taliban fought against the Russians - it's literally impossible for that to have happened unless someone invented a time machine because the Taliban did not exist when the Russians were occupying Afghanistan.
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They was called the Mujahedeen and armed by U.S., Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and a few more.
Then they was trained by ISI but was funded by the USA.
 
ubersonic said:
It's called an analogy, you seemed to be struggling with basic English so I figured simple examples that even a child could understand my help you.
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I'd call it a pointless analogy.

ubersonic said:
So what you are saying then, is that the Taliban just spontaneously appeared on earth, fully grown, trained, and battle hardened?

That the people who fought in Afghanistan who would later be known as the Taliban, are in fact completely different beings?
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What I'm saying is that there was no Taliban during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan - you cannot argue against this because it is a fact (a proper fact and not one presented by Russia Today). Of course there were individual people in the Taliban who previously fought for the mujahideen against Russia, however they weren't fighting in a group called the Taliban, or a group that would be called the Taliban later. The Taliban only started to exist once Pakistan's ISI put them together.

ubersonic said:
Haven't read what you have, but no the arguments against will not have any substance to them because it's true. Generally when the BBC, British politicians, the SA royal family, and declassified CIA documents (Google Operation Cyclone) all say something and the White House denies it, it's the White House that's lying.
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Yeah because the BBC are never wrong and politicians and princes are totally trustworthy - Robin Cook's comments in particular don't seem to be backed up by anything. LOL you're normally the first to accuse Saudi princes and British policies and call it the British Biased Corporation. FYI Operation Cyclone was about funding the mujahideen in Afghanistan, not the Taliban who didn't exist at the time.
 
ubersonic said:
True, however if you drop a large amount of bombs on an area then it's carpet bombing, it doesn't matter if they were guided to hit roughly that area, it's still not a precision strike just because 1:20 hits the thing you wanted to take out.
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It depends. Often the B1 will fly missions over areas where numerous targets are near one another, release half a dozen GBUs, but precision guide each and everyone on to each target simultaneously. That isn't classed as carpet bombing, it is still a PGM.
 
xibinim said:
I know Russian tech is a bit rusty compared to some but Iran and Syria don't share a border.....
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The missiles were launched from the Caspian sea, they pretty much have to fly over Iran and Iraq to get to Syria. It's safe to assume the Iranian government are OK with that, but you'd think the USA would have some influence in the Iraqi government who should be furious.
 
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