ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Terminal_Boy · 13 Aug 2018 at 17:15

dowie said:
Saudi Arabia executed two people for witchcraft/sorcery back in 2011.

Did those people weigh the same as a duck?

Tefal · 13 Aug 2018 at 17:24

Evangelion said:
The latest from Syria:

https://thesyriacampaign.org/
http://whoiskillingciviliansinsyria.org/

Assad's forces are now sweeping through Daraa, attacking civilians indiscriminately. More than 270,000 have fled their homes, but Jordan has closed her border, so the refugees have no escape.

Isis only killed 3 thousand people in 6 years? That csnt be right

dowie · 13 Aug 2018 at 17:27

Terminal_Boy said:
Did those people weigh the same as a duck?

Like some Salem sort of thing?

It is a bit more of a modern twist on backwards religious beliefs now, the male accused of Sorcery was caught in an entrapment operation by a Saudi policeman:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/press-re...a-over-e28098sorcerye28099-charges-2010-05-1/

‘Abdul Hamid Bin Hussain Bin Moustafa al-Fakki was arrested on 8 December 2005 in the city of Madina by the Mutawa’een (religious police), officially called the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice (CPVPV).

He was accused of practising sorcery, after being entrapped by the CPVPV. It is not clear why the authorities targeted him. A man working for the CPVPV approached ‘Abdul Hamid and asked him to produce a spell that would lead to the man’s father separating from his second wife and returning to his first wife, the man’s mother.

‘Abdul Hamid apparently accepted to do this in exchange for 6,000 Saudi Arabian riyals (approximately US$1,600).

He then got his head chopped off in a carpark (warning the link below has a youtube video of this):

http://www.executedtoday.com/2012/09/19/2011-abdul-hamid-al-fakki-sudanese-saudi-arabia-sorcery/

Rroff · 13 Aug 2018 at 17:45

Tefal said:
Isis only killed 3 thousand people in 6 years? That csnt be right

Probably ball park right for civillians - it doesn't serve them to kill too many people - from one town of around 6-7K population (not sure if that includes people who might have fled on their approach or not) they killed around 120 initially and executed atleast a further 64 before they were pushed out 2-3 years later.

The Running Man · 13 Aug 2018 at 17:47

Evangelion said:
The latest from Syria:

https://thesyriacampaign.org/
http://whoiskillingciviliansinsyria.org/

Assad's forces are now sweeping through Daraa, attacking civilians indiscriminately. More than 270,000 have fled their homes, but Jordan has closed her border, so the refugees have no escape.

'Civilians'

Rroff · 13 Aug 2018 at 17:55

I mean various sources put the total civilian deaths at 105-120K total but it doesn't change that a staggering number are caused by regime elements.

It is however total war - civilian deaths are going to be high one way or another it would need deeper analysis to tell a story from that.

StriderX · 13 Aug 2018 at 18:30

I dunno what people expect... War isn't pretty, certainly less so when certain "elements" are prolonging the conflict for nefarious (and seemingly utterly ******* pointless reasons considering that Assad won) desires.

IronWarrior · 13 Aug 2018 at 19:17

Malevolence said:
He stoned a woman for fornication, cut the hand off a thief and, my favourite line of the whole video, he killed a sorcerer.

Other then the lol sorcerer, the thing that struck me the most is how controlled he is, he's sitting there as a prisoner in good conditions too, but it feels like he's in control, his demeanour. There is defiance in his voice.

His education level is so low, he has forgot or doesn't know about the laws of physics, what other knowledge is he lacking.

Most likely hood if he was able to finish his schooling he wouldn't had turned like this.

Tefal · 13 Aug 2018 at 20:48

Yet before they left Iraq 100,000 had died in suicide bombings and car bombs. So either thier really bad or they changed thier strategy massivly

Rroff said:
Probably ball park right for civillians - it doesn't serve them to kill too many people - from one town of around 6-7K population (not sure if that includes people who might have fled on their approach or not) they killed around 120 initially and executed atleast a further 64 before they were pushed out 2-3 years later.

Rroff · 13 Aug 2018 at 20:56

Tefal said:
Yet before they left Iraq 100,000 had died in suicide bombings and car bombs. So either thier really bad or they changed thier strategy massivly

I might be wrong but I think the difference is down to the scenario - in Iraq they were rising up within a country that was beginning to settle (atleast in some form) and largely the population poorly supported them and ISIS used terror as their primary weapon - there were a number of cases where Iraq forces numbering 20-40K retreated from a mere 200-2000 ISIS fighters.

In Syria they took advantage that the country was already fracturing with many parts having a not insignificant population and rebel groups that were anti-regime and atleast initially more receptive (or rather less unreceptive) of them.

They've been ramping up the suicide attacks in Syria as they are being pushed out with a couple of big ones in the last few days such as this one https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...isis-sweida-deraa-golan-heights-a8462916.html

arknor · 13 Aug 2018 at 21:36

why is the independent using the Syrian observatory for human rights as a source?
Syrian Observatory for Human Rights

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, founded in May 2006, is a UK-based information office whose stated aim is to document human rights abuses in Syria; it has focused since 2011 on the Syrian Civil War. Wikipedia
Founder: Osama Suleiman
Founded: May 2006
Legal status: Non-profit organisation Wikipedia
Staff: 1
Location: Coventry, UK
Type of business: Non-Governmental Organisation

organisation of 1 guy who lives in coventry sitting at his pc lol

in communication with the Foreign Office" that "the UK funded a project worth £194,769.60 to provide the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights with communications equipment and cameras.

waste of tax payers money, maybe I'll jump on the next bandwagon and set up an organisation.

seems the EU gave him some money too

Iran observatory for human rights seems like a good bet

RoboCod · 13 Aug 2018 at 21:56

Rroff said:
I might be wrong but I think the difference is down to the scenario - in Iraq they were rising up within a country that was beginning to settle (atleast in some form) and largely the population poorly supported them and ISIS used terror as their primary weapon - there were a number of cases where Iraq forces numbering 20-40K retreated from a mere 200-2000 ISIS fighters.

20-40k? Between 10-20% of the entire Iraqi army fled, together?! Hmm

RoboCod · 13 Aug 2018 at 21:58

StriderX said:
I dunno what people expect... War isn't pretty, certainly less so when certain "elements" are prolonging the conflict for nefarious (and seemingly utterly ******* pointless reasons considering that Assad won) desires.

Shill on

StriderX · 13 Aug 2018 at 21:59

arknor said:
why is the independent using the Syrian observatory for human rights as a source?
Syrian Observatory for Human Rights

organisation of 1 guy who lives in coventry sitting at his pc lol

waste of tax payers money, maybe I'll jump on the next bandwagon and set up an organisation.

seems the EU gave him some money too

Iran observatory for human rights seems like a good bet

I mean it's not exactly the 18th century... even the least connected regions of the planet still manage to leak information out in some manner, it's not entirely impossible for a foreign based "monitor" to do it's job of documentation by collating data, though no doubt it's probably worthless.

RoboCod · 13 Aug 2018 at 22:01

arknor said:
why is the independent using the Syrian observatory for human rights as a source?
Syrian Observatory for Human Rights

organisation of 1 guy who lives in coventry sitting at his pc lol

waste of tax payers money, maybe I'll jump on the next bandwagon and set up an organisation.

seems the EU gave him some money too

Iran observatory for human rights seems like a good bet

Some people take Alex Jones to be a reputable source. Armed with that information, I think any of us could go to be "well respected" sources.

Rroff · 13 Aug 2018 at 22:28

RoboCod said:
20-40k? Between 10-20% of the entire Iraqi army fled, together?! Hmm

Obviously there is the initial retreat from Mosul (30K army, 30K security and militia fled from 1500-1800 ISIS) but there were subsequent retreats when ISIS moved towards Tikrit, Ramadi, etc. though in some cases looking it up that was like say 5-10K Iraqi army and 10K tribal/militia fighters.

Sankari · 13 Aug 2018 at 22:52

ubersonic said:
For reference, the number of civilians allegedly killed by the regime alone in that graphic is nearly double the amount killed in the conflict lol.

Wrong.

Estimates of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, per opposition activist groups, vary between 353,593 and 498,593. On 23 April 2016, the United Nations and Arab League Envoy to Syria put out an estimate of 400,000 that had died in the war.

(Source).

I would guess looking at that it's using the SOHR numbers not the official ones.

It's using the SNHR numbers, which are actually lower than the numbers provided by the UN and the Arab League. Which 'official numbers' are you referring to?

arknor said:
I'm sure their numbers are unverifiable and full of crap

Prove it.

Tefal said:
Isis only killed 3 thousand people in 6 years?

3,000 civilians.

That csnt be right

Why not?

Tefal said:
Yet before they left Iraq 100,000 had died in suicide bombings and car bombs. So either thier really bad or they changed thier strategy massivly

The 100,000 in Iraq were not all killed by IS. In fact, most were not.

Rroff · 13 Aug 2018 at 22:56

That ~400K figure isn't just civilian casualties. Estimates for total killed in reality are around half a million with between 105 and 120K confirmed civilian deaths depending on source (probably a bit higher in reality).

ubersonic · 14 Aug 2018 at 01:13

Rroff said:
Estimates for total killed in reality are around half a million with between 105 and 120K confirmed civilian deaths depending on source

And yet Evangelion's comedy image claims the regime have killed almost twice as many civilians as all parties combined xD

I mean, if your going to lie don't make it that damn obvious lol. I don't know whats worse, how comically high the number for the government is or how comically low the numbers for the rebels/ISIS are xD

IronWarrior · 16 Aug 2018 at 18:36

https://www.pluralist.com/posts/182...tory-to-prove-humans-are-kind-and-gets-killed

Millennial Couple Bikes Near ISIS Territory to Prove ‘Humans Are Kind’ and Gets Killed

“People, the narrative goes, are not to be trusted. People are bad. People are evil."

“I don’t buy it," he continued. "Evil is a make-believe concept we’ve invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans holding values and beliefs and perspectives different than our own... By and large, humans are kind. Self-interested sometimes, myopic sometimes, but kind. Generous and wonderful and kind.”

There are really stupid people and then are these two plus the other 2 who was dumb enough to get fooled by their "lol everyone is kind" message.