ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Being that these individuals care little for their own safety, I am rather good at taking care of myself but I wouldn't tackle the slightest built potential terrorist who seemed to be acting suspiciously. The best thing you could do is dial 999, even then try and be as discreet as possible.

If they were the real thing, you could not possibly know what they have on them. Not the best example and RIP to the guy, but the tube incident showed how officers armed to the teeth took no chance at all with a potential suicide bomber.

The only situation I could possibly think of where any member of the public could do anything is if an attack were underway, if it was a you or them situation and you had no option. Say a guy walking down the street shooting and you were driving, run him over, if you had chance.
 
Some places that are mired in deeply entrenched tribal differences need unpleasant dictators to keep the place from imploding. We could have left Saddam in power, not fostered the Syrian rebellion, and left them to it.

At least then if the place falls into chaos they are fighting each other, not us.
 
mid_gen said:
Some places that are mired in deeply entrenched tribal differences need unpleasant dictators to keep the place from imploding. We could have left Saddam in power, not fostered the Syrian rebellion, and left them to it.
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Christ how many times have I heared that one, I had to correct someone in my office the other day because they said the same thing, id suggest reading The Republic of Fear by Kanan Makiya, you might change your mind after finding out what its like to live under fascism.
 
Johno please? said:
That part of the world needed a serious wake up call, and thats what it got when we removed saddam.
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...and then we got the Arab Spring and now we have ISIS.

We don't know what would have happened had the West not intervened, but you can be sure that it would be much more difficult for them to incite so much hatred against us had we not.
 
dowie said:
I've also got a few people (muslim colleagues) convinced that George Bush created ISIS... or the Jews did... 'why isn't ISIS attacking Israel, just asking?' etc...

too many face palms....
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There was a moron on here a while back asserting Israel created ISIS, simply because thus far they'd been fighting groups who happen to be Israel's enemies such as Assad's regime and it's allies like Iran and Hezbollah, and hadn't attacked Israel itself yet. :rolleyes:

I see guff like this on FaceAche all the time, I hit either unsubscribe or unfriend depending on the severity, I have neither the time or the crayons to explain how stupid their black & white, almost binary view of the world is.
 
Johno please? said:
Christ how many times have I heared that one, I had to correct someone in my office the other day because they said the same thing, id suggest reading The Republic of Fear by Kanan Makiya, you might change your mind after finding out what its like to live under fascism.
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How's life in Iraq post-fascism working out then? Without his iron grip on the place the government has completely lost control and the place has disintegrated into the extremist-riddled mess we have today.

Secondly, we didn't invade Iraq to remove a fascist. We invaded Iraq because of the imminent threat of biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction....which never existed.
 
mid_gen said:
How's life in Iraq post-fascism working out then? Without his iron grip on the place the government has completely lost control and the place has disintegrated into the extremist-riddled mess we have today.

Secondly, we didn't invade Iraq to remove a fascist. We invaded Iraq because of the imminent threat of biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction....which never existed.
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we invaded over oil ;)

if you want to `stop` ISIS , kill the means to make money , destroy the oil. - 1/2 the army will leave when the pay checks run out.
 
The Funktopus said:
There was a moron on here a while back asserting Israel created ISIS, simply because thus far they'd been fighting groups who happen to be Israel's enemies such as Assad's regime and it's allies like Iran and Hezbollah, and hadn't attacked Israel itself yet.
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I've read and re-read this and can't make head nor tail of it still.

Israel created ISIS because they haven't attacked themselves?
 
Hold on, everyone was yeehawing over the weekend about the 'tough' response by France and how they should flatten Raqqa...they dropped 20 bombs on Sunday? :confused: Hardly seems an impressive show of force to me?

Are they just so expensive now we can't afford to fire many? :p
 
mid_gen said:
I don't think it's the reasoning that matters (although it surely doesn't help). If you're a kid whose family members/friends are dead as a result, your home country is in ruins because of a foreign invasion and some ISIS chap gives you a gun and says you can join their movement and get revenge....well....this is where we end up.
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It is a little too simplistic to blame "The West" though. When you have Pakistani heritage Brits going to Syria to fight for a Caliphate exactly how is that a result of people dying in the Iraq war?

Iraq is used as an example of our action causing the attacks on the UK, Syria is used as an example of our inaction causing the attacks on the UK. They are effectively excuses used by an ideology that wants to expand.
 
RDM said:
It is a little too simplistic to blame "The West" though. When you have Pakistani heritage Brits going to Syria to fight for a Caliphate exactly how is that a result of people dying in the Iraq war?

Iraq is used as an example of our action causing the attacks on the UK, Syria is used as an example of our inaction causing the attacks on the UK. They are effectively excuses used by an ideology that wants to expand.
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Sensible people see them as contributory factors, not the cause.
 
The Funktopus said:
Pretty much. In essence, it was asserted that because ISIS was fighting Assad's regime, and hadn't attacked Israel, then IS obviously must have been created by Israel.
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One More Solo said:
I think he's saying ISIS have attacked anti-Israeli groups but not Israel supporting the crackpot theory they are Israeli funded/supported.
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:(

There is no helping some people, much as we'd like to.
 
Hitman_Leon said:
If they were the real thing, you could not possibly know what they have on them. Not the best example and RIP to the guy, but the tube incident showed how officers armed to the teeth took no chance at all with a potential suicide bomber.
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Stockwell.

Under any other circumstances, the Officers directly involved would have got George Medals (Possibly even George Crosses)

Obviously, in the aftermath, there was no way that any such award could have been made.

But I have always felt that the officers concerned were denied the bravery awards that they had clearly earned.
 
RDM said:
It is a little too simplistic to blame "The West" though. When you have Pakistani heritage Brits going to Syria to fight for a Caliphate exactly how is that a result of people dying in the Iraq war?

Iraq is used as an example of our action causing the attacks on the UK, Syria is used as an example of our inaction causing the attacks on the UK. They are effectively excuses used by an ideology that wants to expand.
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I'm not blaming anybody, I'm being realistic. You can't stop a committed terrorist organisation from executing attacks.

The threat of Irish terrorism I grew up with was resolved, and it wasn't through military force, and wasn't through closing the borders and not letting any Irish people in.
 
mid_gen said:
I'm not blaming anybody, I'm being realistic. You can't stop a committed terrorist organisation from executing attacks.

The threat of Irish terrorism I grew up with was resolved, and it wasn't through military force, and wasn't through closing the borders and not letting any Irish people in.
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it was from a group of people who had been fighting the british all their lives and had enough as it wasn't doing anything.


even now those who never gave up are still around.
 
mid_gen said:
The threat of Irish terrorism I grew up with was resolved, and it wasn't through military force, and wasn't through closing the borders and not letting any Irish people in.
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Exactly, as unpalatable as it always is at the start, the main way of defeating Terrorism is dialogue. It just seems you have to go through the motions of military force first, until the attrition wears down both sides before people are willing to start the political process.

I just googled 'How terrorist groups end' and came across data analysed from 1968 - 2006

43% - Politics
40% - Local policing
10% - Victory
7% - Military force

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9351/index1.html
 
Freakbro said:
Exactly, as unpalatable as it always is at the start, the main way of defeating Terrorism is dialogue. It just seems you have to go through the motions of military force first, until the attrition wears down both sides before people are willing to start the political process.

I just googled 'How terrorist groups end' and came across data analysed from 1968 - 2006

43% - Politics
40% - Local policing
10% - Victory
7% - Military force

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9351/index1.html
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it takes all parties wanting to end the bloodletting - and right now , at least 1 group is more than happy to `spill heads` to enforce their rule.
 
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