ISPs to be ordered to boot illegal downloaders

[Gilly]

They shouldn't have to wait, but come the choice between pirating it or waiting, what gives them the right to pirate it? Self-made excuses. People are so impatient these days. If you're sitting in a restaurant and the table next to you gets served an hour before you're told your meal will arrive, what do you do, go over and eat theirs and not pay for your own?

I certainly wouldn't pay for it

If the distributors make people wait for so long (like with US TV shows, there is no reason whatsoever for them to be aired so long after the US) then they are actively encouraging piracy and it is their own fault. Again, I have no sympathy.

 

[Energize]

Yea and the ISPs will need to up our bills to pay for the monitoring etc and computer power to crack encryptions

The encryption is impossible to crack, so they aren't going to buy computers to try to crack it.

 

[opet616]

To play devil's advocate why should people here have to wait?

Exactly. We live in a world of immediacy nowadays. If media companies can't provide us with content quickly, then that's their problem, and not the consumer's.

 

[Maximum Triceratops]

If you live in Hull or the surrounding area then this is already happening to some degree.I have been disconnected for downloading music before and a few of my friends have too! They then send you a letter with the filename of the file you were downloading and also the website you were downloading it from, they then ask you to bring a handwritten letter saying that you have removed the offending file and promise not to do it again or else then they will reconnect you.
They also say if they catch you again then the service could be permamently disconnected.As karoo have the monopoly in Hull that would mean i couldnt have a bb connection if I got caught again.

 

[peetee]

They shouldn't have to wait, but come the choice between pirating it or waiting, what gives them the right to pirate it? Self-made excuses. People are so impatient these days. If you're sitting in a restaurant and the table next to you gets served an hour before you're told your meal will arrive, what do you do, go over and eat theirs and not pay for your own?

thats not the same, Hate when people use examples like that. The other person then doesnt have their food. Its like....
If you went to cinema and something was on(FOR FREE), and there was LOADSS of seats, they ask everyone for nationality, all the yanks get to go watch it, then they tell you you are meant to wait for the UK screening a week later, what are you going to do, tell them you're american or British?

Ok added the for free cos i realised I didnt have that in.

 

[Energize]

As karoo have the monopoly in Hull that would mean i couldnt have a bb connection if I got caught again.

You can get satallite or hsdpa broadband anywhere.

 

[snowdog]

All this "right of privacy" rubbish.
Why don't most of you just admit it.
You aren't fighting for your "right to privacy" you are fighting for your "right to pirate".

I admit it, but I also think it's none of their business of the rest I do, it's a bit of both.

ISP's will not lose loads of customers over this.
Even if everyone who downloads illegal content was kicked from their ISP, there are only so many ISP's they can mvoe to and get kicked from.
Eventually they will run out of ISP's - at which point they will either have to settle down and not download illegal or face not having a single ISP that would actually offer them a connection.

Yes they will, at least half their customers.
They have NO realistic way of investigating what's legal and what not.
There will always be ways of getting internet, people will just nick their neighbors connection or do whatever they did @ school/uni, I know I will.
I doubt they'll eventually ban everyones internet.

Lets hope this one gets through.
The already busy Internet lines could be a lot quieter once a few people have been kicked off.

The internet lines are hopelessly primitive, they must be upgraded, as should most infrastructure, infrastructure, regardless of what form, should always grow bigger.

Just ban anyone downloading huge amounts. The old sledge hammer approach.

Uhu, I see that happening really soon. I'd sue the ISP here in that case for banning people while they say there's no data limit. They offer 20 mb unlimited for 25€, and if it later appears they ban people downloading too much, it only shows they're lying. Faulty advisement.

 

[Lysander]

thats not the same, Hate when people use examples like that. The other person then doesnt have their food.

No, you misunderstood the example. You eat their food as well as them. It's a very apt analogy: feeling you're entitled to something someone else has because you can't get it. That's what theft is all about.

 

[Gilly]

No, you misunderstood the example. You eat their food as well as them. It's a very apt analogy: feeling you're entitled to something someone else has because you can't get it. That's what theft is all about.

The example wouldn't stand. What I would do is either wait and eat free or go elsewhere.

That is also the choice in terms of US TV being aired here. Either wait for it, which is what they wish to force people to do, or get it elsewhere, which is what people are going to do if at all possible.

 

[Lysander]

I certainly wouldn't pay for it

If the distributors make people wait for so long (like with US TV shows, there is no reason whatsoever for them to be aired so long after the US) then they are actively encouraging piracy and it is their own fault. Again, I have no sympathy.

It's just the way the industry is. They don't want to make people wait, but there are license contracts that will take longer to agree on one side of the world than the other.

However, this only adds to the argument that the entire industry needs reform OR people stop downloading. The latter won't happen, and the scope of the former is too immense to comprehend. Leaving it to the ISPs to police their own networks is the next best thing, it seems.

 

[Lysander]

The example wouldn't stand. What I would do is either wait and eat free or go elsewhere.

I think that just reaffirms the example. You're either impatient and 'pirate' - or wait and go elsewhere and pay like you should.

 

[Shellac]

I'm not surprised that the politicians are seeing this as a winner in keeping the music/film/tv industry happy. But how exactly will the ISP's police & enforce it?

The ISP's do not have a list of every piece of copyrighted material ever?

Hence.. Let's just say I download these files.

Random.Linux.ISO
Free.band.promo.mp3
Bad.Man.Illegal.Download.mp3
A.Rubbish.E-Book.PDF
obscure.80's.indie.drone.rock.lo-fi.no-wave.album.RAR

The ISP's can track all the bittorrent traffic they want, but how can they actually prove that the file you have downloaded is breaking copyright without also downloading and inspecting the files themselves, and then confirming with the 'artist/creator' that this file falls under copyright protection?

Will I recieve a warning email for the Linux.ISO?

Yes, I'm sure it will be easy to catch the kids downloading Pirates of the Caribbean, but this whole plan will just create an insane amount of work for the ISP's, unless they just nail a few token high profile cases and are seen to be fighting the 'problem'.

Perhaps someone knows a bit more about the legal side than I. Any thoughts?

 

[Gilly]

It's just the way the industry is. They don't want to make people wait, but there are license contracts that will take longer to agree on one side of the world than the other.

That is not the problem of the consumer though. That the broadcasters and distributors take longer to bring it to some people is their fault, and it is this that will push people to piracy.

However, this only adds to the argument that the entire industry needs reform OR people stop downloading. The latter won't happen, and the scope of the former is too immense to comprehend. Leaving it to the ISPs to police their own networks is the next best thing, it seems.

The scope of the former should be brought into comprehension. I refer to my earlier post discussing the fact that music and video distributors should've known years ago that this was the way the industry was going. That it is beyond reform is their fault and no-one else's.

I think that just reaffirms the example. You're either impatient and 'pirate' - or wait and go elsewhere and pay like you should.

It doesn't reaffirm it, it is the complete antithesis of it. None of my answers took anything away from the other customers in the restaurant.

I'm not being impatient I just want to be served within acceptable boundaries. If I am not I will go elsewhere or complain and get a discount/eat for free.

 

[WotDa]

That is also the choice in terms of US TV being aired here. Either wait for it, which is what they wish to force people to do, or get it elsewhere, which is what people are going to do if at all possible.

At least Sky are trying to show things at a reasonable rate now, Lost is only 4 or so days behind the US now, which is much better than the situation a few years ago.

Sadly the same can't be said for other channels.

 

[snowdog]

I'm not surprised that the politicians are seeing this as a winner in keeping the music/film/tv industry happy. But how exactly will the ISP's police & enforce it?

Kick people I guess...

The ISP's do not have a list of every piece of copyrighted material ever?

Nopes.

Hence.. Let's just say I download these files.

Random.Linux.ISO
Free.band.promo.mp3
Bad.Man.Illegal.Download.mp3
A.Rubbish.E-Book.PDF
obscure.80's.indie.drone.rock.lo-fi.no-wave.album.RAR

The ISP's can track all the bittorrent traffic they want,

They can not.
Bittorrent sends files in small bits, a few parts of (eg.) an 3.5 gb file will be impossible to track and piece together. They'd have to have hundreds of pc's constantly trying to put together all the ''puzzle'' pieces/
That is offcourse when it's some new guy not using encryption, with encryption they have no chance of detecting what you actually send and if it's legal or not.

but how can they actually prove that the file you have downloaded is breaking copyright without also downloading and inspecting the files themselves, and then confirming with the 'artist/creator' that this file falls under copyright protection?

Will I recieve a warning email for the Linux.ISO?

Yes, I'm sure it will be easy to catch the kids downloading Pirates of the Caribbean, but this whole plan will just create an insane amount of work for the ISP's, unless they just nail a few token high profile cases and are seen to be fighting the 'problem'.

Perhaps someone knows a bit more about the legal side than I. Any thoughts?

They will hopelessly fail, unless they buy a million servers now monitoring, decrypting, and puzzling together small pieces of files.


Even if they find a way to monitor torrents, there will be a new p2p service soon after than will have better encryption, better speeds, more efficient use of bandwith, etc...
P2P adjusts far faster than anti p2p, for every p2p site/app gone there are 10 new.

 

[WotDa]

They can not.
Bittorrent sends files in small bits, a few parts of (eg.) an 3.5 gb file will be impossible to track and piece together. They'd have to have hundreds of pc's constantly trying to put together all the ''puzzle'' pieces/

Unless they're sat in the swarm with you.

 

[peetee]

At least Sky are trying to show things at a reasonable rate now, Lost is only 4 or so days behind the US now, which is much better than the situation a few years ago.

Sadly the same can't be said for other channels.

Yea, Prison Break was the same too, the thing is... At Uni its 2 of us in a flat, We definately cant afford to stump up for sky, we did have skyone on virgin before which was great, but I wasnt happy when we lost it, so now we either have to buy sky, and be in the 12month commitment, which wont be v good for us since we wont be here another 12months, just to watch one or 2 programs on SkyOne, the rest we can watch on freeview anyway.
In effect I get the choice of paying hundreds of pounds to watch prison break, with Sky getting aload of my money for things i dont want, or I just steal Prison Break.. bonus being I get to watch it faster than everyone with Sky.
Though my parents do have a £50 sky subscription, so I dont really feel that bad, because if I didnt download it I would ask my parents to record it every week and send me the disc, but whats easier, really?
Its still not really good enough.
Arguement also comes into play for p2p-video streaming now, theres a reason a lot of footy gets watched online, because Skysports+setanta cost a fair bit together right? And for me it would be pointless having both since all i watch is footy, and even then i only really watch my liverpool games and the odd others, and how many games do 'your' team have televised every year? not really value for money is it.. BUT i do have setanta atm, I forgot to cancel it mind you, EVERYONE got it when it was 2months for £1, shows that a lot of people would prefer the lower prices and have it for the sake of it, If I could pay for individual footy games on the TV id love it, it wouldnt be crap quality like p2p streams etc, aslong as it was reasonable, Prem+ was SHOCKING.

I think that just reaffirms the example. You're either impatient and 'pirate' - or wait and go elsewhere and pay like you should.

At the moment we cant go elsewhere and generate them revenue, which is what ****** me off, they have the ability to offer the better service and crush pirating by just releasing online at a higher quality with ads, but they dont, so we go elsewhere. People like having a choice, its just a shame they only offer us 1 legal choice.

 

[Angilion]

Uhu, I see that happening really soon. I'd sue the ISP here in that case for banning people while they say there's no data limit. They offer 20 mb unlimited for 25€, and if it later appears they ban people downloading too much, it only shows they're lying. Faulty advisement.

It happens already. It's known as "fair use policy".

An "unlimited" net service is effectively one with an unspecified cap.

 

[Lysander]

The scope of the former should be brought into comprehension. I refer to my earlier post discussing the fact that music and video distributors should've known years ago that this was the way the industry was going. That it is beyond reform is their fault and no-one else's.

If it's their fault, it's also the fault of everyone: the bands, the labels, the producers, the promoters, everyone. If it's their fault it's the fault of currency for existing and driving the globe. Your statement is too general.

I think this all boils down to the fact that piracy is now so widespread that it's hardly seen as a bad thing by most people [and some don't even know it's bad]. Years ago the pirates were looked on as rebels, now they're de rigeur.

People should learn that music and film is a privilege to be paid for and not an intrinsic right.

Will this ever happen? Not likely. The only next step it to try to get the ISPs to do the policing.

 

[snowdog]

Unless they're sat in the swarm with you.

Wouldn't that be illegal for them to do, they'd break copyright laws ?
Fake peers are very quickly picked up an blacklisted though.
Then there's the thing of closed communicy's.
I'm member of enpugh sites that don't accept new members since ages, and it's pretty much clean, all people are fair sharers.

It happens already. It's known as "fair use policy".

An "unlimited" net service is effectively one with an unspecified cap.

No, the isp I have in mind (orange) has no Fup.
It has no limits at all, you can download 30 gb a day and you'd still always have 20 mb speed.

I can also confirm that from personal experience, can download 300-500 gb a month easely without being capped or other greedy carp.