It looks like the 'real' /affordable RDNA3 + next gen NV desktop launch won't launch until September. Thoughts?

[KompuKare]

XBox sell about half as many as PS5, so included that would take the share of AMD's gaming revenue to about 75%?

The dGPU's themselves will be profitable, even the RX 6600XT right now at £200 flat after the BOM costs, AIB, the global inventory shipping and the retailer all take their cut will have a profit, all be it a small one, £20 a pop?

However these things cost R&D to develop, that is expensive, that cost will be shared as IP for many segments, including consoles, but if you're only selling what? at best a million GPU's globally every year? its peanuts in terms of revenue.

That's why I keep pointing out again (and again and again) in all the various AMD threads amid all new "we are not a budget brand" talk, that:

Profit = margin * volume

But it seems in vain, they'd rather have high margins on paltry sales resulting in paltry profits than high volumes at saner margins which might - shock - results in higher profits!

The only new news is that there is an RX7600 8GB:

Gigabyte confirms Radeon RX 7600 8GB and GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 8GB GPUs - VideoCardz.com

Radeon RX 7600 and GeForce RTX 4060 Ti models from Gigabyte revealed Gigabyte next-gen mid-range GPUs have now been spotted over EEC (Eurasian Economic Commission) regulatory office. Gigabyte is among the few companies that tend to file new SKUs to EEC weeks before actual launch. It is worth...

videocardz.com

ASRock preparing Radeon RX 7600 8GB Steel Legend GPU and low-profile Arc A380 - VideoCardz.com

ASRock to introduce Steel Legend GPU According to the rumors, the AMD Radeon RX 7600 desktop graphics card is to be launched later this month. Many leaks show that AMD board partners are indeed working on this launch. It is now reported that ASRock will release as many as three custom variants...

videocardz.com

Interestingly no RX7600XT leaks,so hopefully it means its not to pricey.

Pricey or not, what we really want to know is: will it move perf/cost down?

If the reviews are full of perf/watt talk then we will know that AMD put that in their reviewers guide and while it is nice to see perf/watt getting some attention I suspect it would be a distraction from the lack of movement on perf/cost. Anyway, last gen perf/watt didn't matter (since AMD had it), so no idea why this gen it has suddenly been re-discovered!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Pricey or not, what we really want to know is: will it move perf/cost down?

If the reviews are full of perf/watt talk then we will know that AMD put that in their reviewers guide and while it is nice to see perf/watt getting some attention I suspect it would be a distraction from the lack of movement on perf/cost. Anyway, last gen perf/watt didn't matter (since AMD had it), so no idea why this gen it has suddenly been re-discovered!

The big issue is that Nvidia/AMD/Intel are trying to use upscaling as part of the performance "uplifts". Just as DLSS3 only works on Ada Lovelace with FG,I would expect FSR3 to work "best" on RDNA3. This way they can spin "performance" have gone up and get the uberfans to bleat on how good it is,to hide the fact.

This is what a lot of these cretins don't understand. Basically its doing what consoles have done for years,except you pay even more and get Apple level marketing.

 

[g67575]

The pricing on the RTX 3080 TI (and RTX 3090 to a lesser extent) is abysmal and always has been.

They should be available for around £600 these days, at that price I might buy one.

 

[KompuKare]

The big issue is that Nvidia/AMD/Intel are trying to use upscaling as part of the performance "uplifts". Just as DLSS3 only works on Ada Lovelace with FG,I would expect FSR3 to work "best" on RDNA3. This way they can spin "performance" have gone up and get the uberfans to bleat on how good it is,to hide the fact.

This is what a lot of these cretins don't understand. Basically its doing what consoles have done for years,except you pay even more and get Apple level marketing.

Not just consoles either as someone pointed out on the AT thread about RT and upscales. Bluray players have upscaled DVDs for years, and so have TVs but nobody made much of a fuzz about it and nobody ever said that a DVD upscaled looked better than a native bluray or a 4K TV looks best when feed a 720P signal and scaled vs native 4K content.

Something in the kool-aid seem to have got people to ignore all the artefacts when using upscalers.

 

[humbug]

The big issue is that Nvidia/AMD/Intel are trying to use upscaling as part of the performance "uplifts". Just as DLSS3 only works on Ada Lovelace with FG,I would expect FSR3 to work "best" on RDNA3. This way they can spin "performance" have gone up and get the uberfans to bleat on how good it is,to hide the fact.

This is what a lot of these cretins don't understand. Basically its doing what consoles have done for years,except you pay even more and get Apple level marketing.

This is why i have beef with people rattling "its worth more because" well ok so now you have a 74% price hike for your efforts, from now on please be quite.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not just consoles either as someone pointed out on the AT thread about RT and upscales. Bluray players have upscaled DVDs for years, and so have TVs but nobody made much of a fuzz about it and nobody ever said that a DVD upscaled looked better than a native bluray or a 4K TV looks best when feed a 720P signal and scaled vs native 4K content.

Something in the kool-aid seem to have got people to ignore all the artefacts when using upscalers.

Its becoming Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance. Instead of questioning what these companies are doing,it becomes more "you hate my brand" conversation. I knew gamers could be very brand specific,its starting to make some Apple fans I know seem reasonable. Makes you wonder whether the inrush of ex-console gamers in recent years might be a factor(PS vs XBox could get very heated).

This is why i have beef with people rattling "its worth more because" well ok so now you have a 74% price hike for your efforts, from now on please be quite.

How can people trust any of these companies,considering the moves which have been made in the past. This is certainly not the PCMR of 20 years ago.

 

[Bencher]

Not just consoles either as someone pointed out on the AT thread about RT and upscales. Bluray players have upscaled DVDs for years, and so have TVs but nobody made much of a fuzz about it and nobody ever said that a DVD upscaled looked better than a native bluray or a 4K TV looks best when feed a 720P signal and scaled vs native 4K content.

Something in the kool-aid seem to have got people to ignore all the artefacts when using upscalers.

Die diecs upscaled looked better than 4k bluerays? If not then how do you expect people to claim it did, lol. Dlss does look better in lots of games on the other hand.

It reminds of audiophiles with their 5k euro cables, claiming they can hear the difference. Blind tests of course proves that wrong, again and again. The same way blind tests proves wrong the proponents of native rendering. ALWAYS. Repeatedly.

It's embarrassing at this point, the amount of marketing and brainwashing people have gone through to make them believe native looks better than dlss, lol. I mean not all of them, some know that dlss is better, they just pretend it doesn't. Explains why they refuse to take the blind test, they don't want to get exposed.

 

[Zarax]

Die diecs upscaled looked better than 4k bluerays? If not then how do you expect people to claim it did, lol. Dlss does look better in lots of games on the other hand.

It reminds of audiophiles with their 5k euro cables, claiming they can hear the difference. Blind tests of course proves that wrong, again and again. The same way blind tests proves wrong the proponents of native rendering. ALWAYS. Repeatedly.

It's embarrassing at this point, the amount of marketing and brainwashing people have gone through to make them believe native looks better than dlss, lol. I mean not all of them, some know that dlss is better, they just pretend it doesn't. Explains why they refuse to take the blind test, they don't want to get exposed.

Seriously, no.
I'm not refuting that in some games upscaling might end up in something more pleasing to the eye but it does because the original devs made an horrible AA implementation.
In audiophile terms, you're arguing that "compressed audio with X algorithm + reconstructing filter" sounds better than the original CD.

Note that many accuses Bose of doing something similar in audio and it actually sells at a premium so I'm not at all surprised it works for video as well.
Please also note that modern anti aliasing indeed is a kind of distortion in some terms so upscaling might actually do a better job than standard, however by its nature it cannot overtake real, supersampling anti aliasing.

That said, I would indeed appreciate ML-driven AA, basically what DLSS and FSR do now but applied to native as it proved to be a pretty good compromise.

 

[Bencher]

I'm not refuting that in some games upscaling might end up in something more pleasing to the eye but it does because the original devs made an horrible AA implementation.

Partly I agree. But if the % of games with crappy AA is let's say, hypothetically, 30%, then DLSS provides a benefit in a big, really bit portion of games. On top of the image quality benefits in that 30% of games, it also provides a framerate benefit, not just in that 30% of them, but in 100% of them. Hwunboxed tested 20 games, in 11 of them DLSS looked either better or equal to native. While - as Ive said already - having higher framerates. That to me is absolutely insane.

But that's not where it stops. If you don't need the framerate boost that DLSS gives, you can use it from a supersampled image. Supersample + DLSS looks vastly better than native.

The main point of my post though was that talk is cheap. Blind tests are all that matters. The rest are just words, absolutely meaningless. We can sit here all day going back and forth and it won't amount to anything. Whoever claims that DLSS looks like crap (those people exist, right here on this forum) can just take the blind test and prove it. But they won't. The few that did lost miserably. No amount of words will convince anyone that likes DLSS that it's bad. A blind test will. Whoever takes it and shows that he can clearly see the difference between native and DLSS will absolutely convince me that DLSS is indeed crap and im complete blind for not seeing it. Until then it's just words.

Imagine me going into an audiophile forum and repeatedly calling everyone a pleb for not using 5k€ cables because they are made of unicorn blood and make sound so much better. At some point, people will ask me to take a blind test. If I keep refusing, what do you think they will think? That im full of **** and 5k cables suck. That's how I feel about native right now after so many people keep sprouting their hatred but none of them takes a test. Especially when respected reviewers took the test and conclude that in the majority, DLSS is equal or better to native.

 

[Nexus18]

I'm not refuting that in some games upscaling might end up in something more pleasing to the eye but it does because the original devs made an horrible AA implementation.

And that there is the problem, most games are awful for this, funnily the issues with TAA etc. were never pointed out until dlss came about though i.e. where dlss had similar or worse issues with ghosting, blurry mess etc. I suppose such issues only made it to the spotlight then because it had "nvidia" on it which meant you got the "haters gonna hate/anti nvidia" brigade tearing it apart, which then meant, you also had to call out how bad the native + AA methods were/are too.

Would be great to get a new and better AA method as smaa, msaa etc. just don't work well with games nowadays since games are made with TAA methods in mind. DLAA is fantastic but uptake is poor and obviously locked to nvidia.

 

[TheRealDeal]

And that there is the problem, most games are awful for this, funnily the issues with TAA etc. were never pointed out until dlss came about though i.e. where dlss had similar or worse issues with ghosting, blurry mess etc. I suppose such issues only made it to the spotlight then because it had "nvidia" on it which meant you got the "haters gonna hate/anti nvidia" brigade tearing it apart, which then meant, you also had to call out how bad the native + AA methods were/are too.

Would be great to get a new and better AA method as smaa, msaa etc. just don't work well with games nowadays since games are made with TAA methods in mind. DLAA is fantastic but uptake is poor and obviously locked to nvidia.

No initially DLSS got slated because it was actually terrible. I don't really see much hate now that it has improved a lot but initially it was worse than turning down the resolution and adding sharpening which gave better results and similar frame boosts. Native with a good AA implementation is probably where it's at as less issues but with Ray Tracing that's not possible for 99% of gamer's on PC especially at 4k. So DLSS is a decent tool to have in the box.

 

[Nexus18]

No initially DLSS got slated because it was actually terrible. I don't really see much hate now that it has improved a lot but initially it was worse than turning down the resolution and adding sharpening which gave better results and similar frame boosts. Native with a good AA implementation is probably where it's at as less issues but with Ray Tracing that's not possible for 99% of gamer's on PC especially at 4k. So DLSS is a decent tool to have in the box.

All the issues with TAA i.e. severe ghosting, haloing, shimmering etc. were never mentioned until dlss came about i.e. those issues were only put in the spotlight because something made by nvidia had those issues and even then a lot of the hate continued with 2.0+ and arguably it is still the same with some anti nvidia people on here e.g. no one batted an eye lid for days gone TAA ghosting/blurring etc. until I posted screenshots showing it, if dlss had been in the game, guaranteed there would have been a thread on it If upscaling/dlss never came out, I put money on it, no one would be posting about things like shimmering, temporal stability, ghosting and so on.

 

[TheRealDeal]

All the issues with TAA i.e. severe ghosting, haloing, shimmering etc. were never mentioned until dlss came about i.e. those issues were only put in the spotlight because something made by nvidia had those issues and even then a lot of the hate continued with 2.0+ and arguably it is still the same with some anti nvidia people on here e.g. no one batted an eye lid for days gone TAA ghosting/blurring etc. until I posted screenshots showing it, if dlss had been in the game, guaranteed there would have been a thread on it If upscaling/dlss never came out, I put money on it, no one would be posting about things like shimmering, temporal stability, ghosting and so on.

Well that makes sense because there was no other option until DLSS came along. It's not like FSR and Xess got away free either when they came on the scene. Imo DLSS gets more scrutiny as a lot of people big it up as being the second coming of Christ .

 

[Nexus18]

Well that makes sense because there was no other option until DLSS came along. It's not like FSR and Xess got away free either when they came on the scene. Imo DLSS gets more scrutiny as a lot of people big it up as being the second coming of Christ .

Are you kidding me? "FSR 1 the dlss killer" "FSR 2 the dlss killer" "zomg look at how awful the ghosting is in deathloop with dlss and how much better fsr is!!!!".... fast forward to fsr experiencing even worse ghosting etc. than dlss in several titles and uptake being incredibly slow and the fsr threads go very quiet but back to bashing dlss threads

But yeah, don't disagree on that, it's great imo but no need for threads on it or fsr any more imo as whether people like it or not, neither solution is going away anytime soon so either use it or don't, no one is holding a gun to their head to enable the settings.

The only con with upscaling tech and now frame generation is that devs are clearly relying on this as their way to "optimise" games for PC.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Are you kidding me? "FSR 1 the dlss killer" "FSR 2 the dlss killer" "zomg look at how awful the ghosting is in deathloop with dlss and how much better fsr is!!!!".... fast forward to fsr experiencing even worse ghosting etc. than dlss in several titles and uptake being incredibly slow and the fsr threads go very quiet but back to bashing dlss threads

But yeah, don't disagree on that, it's great imo but no need for threads on it or fsr any more imo as whether people like it or not, neither solution is going away anytime soon so either use it or don't, no one is holding a gun to their head to enable the settings.

The only con with upscaling tech and now frame generation is that devs are clearly relying on this as their way to "optimise" games for PC.

I guess your last point is what really turns people off about DLSS,FSR and XESS. FSR has potential but not sure how far AMD can or want to take it. I certainly don't see as much passion around FSR as there is around DLSS when it's good or bad.

 

[JediFragger]

I guess your last point is what really turns people off about DLSS,FSR and XESS. FSR has potential but not sure how far AMD can or want to take it. I certainly don't see as much passion around FSR as there is around DLSS when it's good or bad.

Considering the fact that rDNA3 supposedly has AI elements to aid upscaling they sure are being tardy about releasing any further information about it!!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Considering the fact that rDNA3 supposedly has AI elements to aid upscaling they sure are being tardy about releasing any further information about it!!

Wouldn't they need to actually finish launching their entire range first?

 

[TheRealDeal]

Considering the fact that rDNA3 supposedly has AI elements to aid upscaling they sure are being tardy about releasing any further information about it!!

No surprise there being that AMD can't be bothered to release any more 7 series cards for the last 5 months. Hopefully that's down to the rumored problems and re-spin of the chips so releasing them when they are correct and ready. Would make sense to release FSR 3 with a card to give it more exposure but we might not see it this year at this rate.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

No surprise there being that AMD can't be bothered to release any more 7 series cards for the last 5 months. Hopefully that's down to the rumored problems and re-spin of the chips so releasing them when they are correct and ready. Would make sense to release FSR 3 with a card to give it more exposure but we might not see it this year at this rate.

They already released Navi 33....for laptops!

 

[JediFragger]

No surprise there being that AMD can't be bothered to release any more 7 series cards for the last 5 months. Hopefully that's down to the rumored problems and re-spin of the chips so releasing them when they are correct and ready. Would make sense to release FSR 3 with a card to give it more exposure but we might not see it this year at this rate.

Just highlights AMDs lack of software engineers imo, plus the fact that DLSS has been improving exponentially over the last 6 months or so!!