Italian Grand Prix 2010, Monza Circuit - Race 14/19

[JUMPURS]

I don't really think that driving well, in a single GP gives you the right to say that "you are worthy of the championship".

indeed, looks at the stats

Wins
Webber - 4
Alonso - 3
Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Poles
Vettel - 7
Webber - 5
LH + FA - 1
Button - 0

Fastest Laps
Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Podiums
Webber, Hamilton - 7
Vettel, Alonso, Button - 6

So yeah, world champ material there.

At the end of the day Hamilton has been far more consistent and in the early part of the season seemed intent on breaking the overtaking record. Hamilton has shown that in an inferior car he can beat other drivers.

I'd like to see the statistics on that, considering how much of a charge Alonso went on in Monaco lol

Although random stat considering all the talk of Ferrari and their engine issues, Mass and Alonso have done the most laps completed of anyone. Massa has finished every GP, and Alonso has only missed 8 laps by binning it in Belgium.

 

[Cavallino]

Incorrect.. it was a forced Neutral. its a failsafe for the gearbox. not to do with driver control.

Potayto, Potahto

The main point I was trying to make is that he was caving under the pressure of the final race and this sum it up quite nicely...

He has to be careful not to back himself up into a corner and do something similar this year.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Just got back from the weekend. Rubbish news about Hami . Oh well, should be an interesting few races. Really hope Webber shines in the next few races - would hate to see Alonso take this.

 

[Cavallino]

indeed, looks at the stats

Wins
Webber - 4
Alonso - 3
Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Poles
Vettel - 7
Webber - 5
LH + FA - 1
Button - 0

Fastest Laps
Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Podiums
Webber, Hamilton - 7
Vettel, Alonso, Button - 6

So yeah, world champ material there.



I'd like to see the statistics on that, considering how much of a charge Alonso went on in Monaco lol

Although random stat considering all the talk of Ferrari and their engine issues, Mass and Alonso have done the most laps completed of anyone. Massa has finished every GP, and Alonso has only missed 8 laps by binning it in Belgium.

Why is the Unreal 3 voice over "MEGAKILL" ringing in my head Good stats there J.

EDIT: Button won 2 races bud. China and Australia. Megakill denied

 

[phil0316]

I'd like to see the statistics on that, considering how much of a charge Alonso went on in Monaco lol

What charge ? He passed a few HRT's and Virgin cars - the other places he made up was due to switching to the hard tyre when the safety car was out in the first few laps.

Thus using both compounds of tyre and not needing another stop.

 

[Cavallino]

What charge ? He passed a few HRT's and Virgin cars - the other places he made up was due to switching to the hard tyre when the safety car was out in the first few laps.

Thus using both compounds of tyre and not needing another stop.

Theyre still cars on track and ergo cars which have to be overtaken.

But to be fair I also understand your point. I.e. backmarker overtake aint exactly the same as overtaking a car in the top 10.

 

[Duke]

indeed, looks at the stats

Wins
Webber - 4
Alonso - 3
Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Poles
Vettel - 7
Webber - 5
LH + FA - 1
Button - 0

Fastest Laps
Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Podiums
Webber, Hamilton - 7
Vettel, Alonso, Button - 6

Stats are wrong?

Wins
Mark Webber - 4
Lewis Hamilton - 3
Fernando Alonso - 3
Jenson Button - 2
Sebastian Vettel - 2

Pole positions
Sebastian Vettel - 7
Mark Webber - 5
Lewis Hamilton - 1
Fernando Alonso - 1

Podiums
Lewis Hamilton - 7
Mark Webber - 7
Sebastian Vettel - 6
Jenson Button - 6
Fernando Alonso - 6
Felipe Massa - 4
Nico Rosberg - 3
Robert Kubica - 3

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/f1-2010-statistics/

 

[[TW]Taggart]

Potayto, Potahto

The main point I was trying to make is that he was caving under the pressure of the final race and this sum it up quite nicely...

He has to be careful not to back himself up into a corner and do something similar this year.

it was his first season in f1 and he beat Alonso, a 2 times world champ in the same car. Cut the guy some slack. Kimi lucked into that WDC pure and simple

 

[JUMPURS]

Stats are wrong?


http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/f1-2010-statistics/

Yeah i typo'd on the wins, got the stats from the same place lol

 

[JUMPURS]

Team orders are fine. Teams can tell a driver to not fight their team mate in front just fine today. It's when those team orders affect the race result like what happened in Austria '02 and Germany '10 (just the two most recent famous examples). Conspiracy theorists like to accuse McLaren of using fuel saving commands to manipulate their drivers into holding station. That may be totally true. But as we all saw in Hunguary - two drivers, in the same car, on the same fuel saving settings, are still going to be fighting because the only differences between their pace will be their driving and/or mistakes.

How can telling one driver not to pass another not affect the race result

 

[Cavallino]

it was his first season in f1 and he beat Alonso, a 2 times world champ in the same car. Cut the guy some slack. Kimi lucked into that WDC pure and simple

Oh Im not denying that it was his first season etc etc...
But you cant disregard facts and in 2008 it was no different... and this time HE lucked into the 2008 WDC when he was massively on the backfoot and managed to get Timmo into the last corner.

 

[Mr Jack]

I'd be very surprised to see Alonso win this. I think Webber's got to be favourite for the season, with Vettel as second favourite. The Red Bull is simply a faster car.

Can't say I'd be too unhappy if Webber won, I've always liked the guy. Although it'll be another case of the car winning the championship, and the drivers champion going to someone who is clearly not the best around. I'd like to see Hamilton win, I think he's driven a great season bar the last race where one silly mistake cost him heavily, but I think it's unlikely unless someone at McLaren does something special.

 

[hiroofheroes]

indeed, looks at the stats

Wins
Webber - 4
Alonso - 3
Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Poles
Vettel - 7
Webber - 5
LH + FA - 1
Button - 0

Fastest Laps
Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Podiums
Webber, Hamilton - 7
Vettel, Alonso, Button - 6

So yeah, world champ material there.

2 wins for Button for a start, but when I said 2 drives worthy of champions it's a perfectly fair point as they are two world champions showing just why they got there.

It was no bearing on who should win it this year.

 

[Cavallino]

How can telling one driver not to pass another not effect the race result

Whether a team asks a driver to overtake another, or asks both drivers to hold fort, is a team order and more importantly, manipulating the result of the race since the team has dictated terms which will affect the finishing order of the grand prix. It is articifical and ergo constitutes a team order.

I.e. By asking drivers to hold station, you are asking the driver behind to NOT overtake the guy infront and ultimately you are limiting competition by not allowing your drivers to race.

Exactly what I thought J

 

[sunama]

indeed, looks at the stats
Wins
Webber - 4
Alonso - 3
Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Poles
Vettel - 7
Webber - 5
LH + FA - 1
Button - 0

Fastest Laps
Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton - 3
Button - 1

Podiums
Webber, Hamilton - 7
Vettel, Alonso, Button - 6

Those stats don't really show anything in particular. All it shows is that there are a few drivers who are all performing similarly, although we have to take a little away from Webber/Vettel, due to their car advantage.

What they show is that Alonso has been mixing it with the likes of Hamilton. They don't show Alonso differentiating himself as the daddy of F1. I agree that his car isnt as good as the RBR, however, he should at least be able to distinguish himself from the likes of Hamilton, Button etc.

Similarly, if you look at Button, he has been consistent, but he has never been able to reach the heights of Hamilton, say. If you can't match your team-mate in equal machinery, the question will always arise, "Is he worthy, given that the only other guy in the same car, is consistently beating him".

I stand by my original opinion that based on what we've seen so far, Hamilton is more worthy of being this year's WDC than Alonso or Button. The title standings also bear this out...which I believe is the ultimate statistic.

My opinion may change of course, if Alonso (or Button...unlikely) goes on a charge and demolishes everyone in the remaining races to win the title.

 

[sunama]

It was no bearing on who should win it this year.

OIC.

 

[Cavallino]

I stand by my original opinion that based on what we've seen so far, Hamilton is more worthy of being this year's WDC than Alonso or Button. The title standings also bear this out...which I believe is the ultimate statistic.

Was about to say that there is still 5 races to go...

My opinion may change of course, if Alonso (or Button...unlikely) goes on a charge and demolishes everyone in the remaining races to win the title.

But then you said that which evens it out

I would definitely say that Alonso had been underperforming and Monza is a race which sees him coming out of the undeperforming troph so to speak.

 

[FrankJH]

Those stats don't really show anything in particular. All it shows is that there are a few drivers who are all performing similarly, although we have to take a little away from Webber/Vettel, due to their car advantage.

What they show is that Alonso has been mixing it with the likes of Hamilton. They don't show Alonso differentiating himself as the daddy of F1. I agree that his car isnt as good as the RBR, however, he should at least be able to distinguish himself from the likes of Hamilton, Button etc.

Similarly, if you look at Button, he has been consistent, but he has never been able to reach the heights of Hamilton, say. If you can't match your team-mate in equal machinery, the question will always arise, "Is he worthy, given that the only other guy in the same car, is consistently beating him".

I stand by my original opinion that based on what we've seen so far, Hamilton is more worthy of being this year's WDC than Alonso or Button. The title standings also bear this out...which I believe is the ultimate statistic.

My opinion may change of course, if Alonso (or Button...unlikely) goes on a charge and demolishes everyone in the remaining races to win the title.

It would be very interesting to know if this view point would be changed if MW had the additional points (and another win) for Germany, and Button the same for Spa (a handful of extra points, not a win)

After alll - Hamilton would have less points due to (revised) Germany result, and all LH's bad races - bar one - were completely his fault, Vettel is about where he should be on points but has thrown a huge amount away with risky/stupid moves, and JB would have lost a few for 3rd in Germany instead of 2nd but to massively compensate at worst finished 3rd in spa

MW of course wrote himself off any kind of result (even just a few points) a few races ago by being too eager and smashing into the rear of a tail-ender, but I think that was always going to be a bad race for him due to earlier circumstances - but even so its really only MW and JB who have significantly lost major points/podiums due to any other driver (just happens to be the same one lol)

"natural" dnf's are one thing, hopefully these average out across the leading drivers - either dodgy engine/burst tyre / coolers not being removed etc - but when one leading driver takes out another , it does put an unfair balance on the stats of the other driver(s) affected in those incidences imo - not to mention for instance JB could be in worst case scenario 20 points off the lead for the title (given that MW would have got an extra 10 for Germany) - or in other terms 2 points AHEAD of LH with 5 races to go (given MW won ,LH would loose 7 against his total today)..... for a driver who isnt rated anywhere close to the "majesty" of LH this far into the season in the same machinary......

 

[JUMPURS]

Those stats don't really show anything in particular. All it shows is that there are a few drivers who are all performing similarly, although we have to take a little away from Webber/Vettel, due to their car advantage.

What they show is that Alonso has been mixing it with the likes of Hamilton. They don't show Alonso differentiating himself as the daddy of F1. I agree that his car isnt as good as the RBR, however, he should at least be able to distinguish himself from the likes of Hamilton, Button etc.

Similarly, if you look at Button, he has been consistent, but he has never been able to reach the heights of Hamilton, say. If you can't match your team-mate in equal machinery, the question will always arise, "Is he worthy, given that the only other guy in the same car, is consistently beating him".

I stand by my original opinion that based on what we've seen so far, Hamilton is more worthy of being this year's WDC than Alonso or Button. The title standings also bear this out...which I believe is the ultimate statistic.

My opinion may change of course, if Alonso (or Button...unlikely) goes on a charge and demolishes everyone in the remaining races to win the title.

I'd say out of the top 5 drivers, Button would be 5th on who deserves it. I think Alonso has put in the better performances this year as a whole, like Hamilton, a couple of mistakes could cost him the championship (jump start, crash in Belgium etc). Monaco was an awesome drive from Alonso on a circuit 'you can't pass on'

But then again, i am an Alonso fan, and don't hide it. I said months ago i think LH will win, and nothing has changed my thoughts on that. Though i would love for Alonso to just sneak up and steal it from everyone, but doubt it will happen.

 

[hiroofheroes]

With the upcoming races seemingly favouring the RB/Ferrari cars more than the McLarens (of course the pecking order may be different after the singapore upgrades) my money has to be on Webber - but if Red Bull don't win this year with the advantage they had I'd expect the big bosses to look towards shaking up the team, so the pressures going to be on Horner to make sure the team delivers - but I have a feeling they may pull a Ferrari '99.