Italian Grand Prix 2010, Monza Circuit - Race 14/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
I'm very thankful it's not football.
get rid of vettel tbh
Yes, the team built virtually for Vettel is going to ditch their wunderkind...
as a JB fan I feel that whatever he achieves this year to be a good result as he has gone to a team that realistically has built a car with Ham in mind. He might not be as aggressive as Ham or able to extract 110% from a car like some others, but overall he's a solid driver with a WDC to his name.
Out of the lot of them Alonso has been outperforming the car and his team mate more than any of the others. Yes he's had a few mistakes but he's pushing harder and his car has let him down the most.
His car has not been anything like as consistently good as the Mclaren or Red Bull. They are either fastest or nowhere in comparison to the other teams. The Mclaren is either fastest or the 2nd best team. Mclaren have always been there to profit when Red Bull ****s up.
The Mclaren drivers are not that far apart on race pace, the Ferrari are worlds apart on race pace.
The only driver from the top batch that won't deserve it if they win it, is vettel imo. He's destroyed the races of too many people around him to be classed as a outright champion. You would have to go back to 1992 to find a champion who didn't make a pigs ear of his first title but even if vettel was to do it, he's made a pigs ear of everyones title challenge not just his own.
The rest have all done good things in spells that it's hard to seperate them. Red Bull has the fastest car, the Mclarens have been the most consistent but I feel Alonso has had to outperform his car and his team mate much more than the rest.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Alonso has been stuck behind Massa more times than I can count this season, unable to pass him in a car thats fairly easily passed. As in, the McClaren seems to have a wing setup that makes slipstreaming harder than with other cars, IE people get stuck behind Button a LOT more than they get stuck behind Alonso, yet Hamilton breezes past Button pretty quickly when he needs to and Massa can quite comftably keep a seemingly much faster Alonso behind him.
As for McClarens, I think they've yet to be the fastest car at any race, and for several races have had less pace than the Ferrari's, just FAR better consistancy. Alonso has had some bad luck, but has been monumentally stupid on just as many occassions as Hamilton, both maybe slightly less often than Vettel
When Alonso got the place over, Kubica, if he gave it up, he'd have been passed him in another 4 corners, instead he was an idiot about it and it ruined his race.
Plenty of people, even at the top, have had little shunts and hurt others races around them, Vettel's had a bad year someone out of the top 6 was always going to have caused more accidents than the rest, thats life, plus he's made it interesting and his crashes have been pretty hilarious, Webber/Button ones in particular.
We'll have to see if Red Bull's seeming lack of pace continues, if so it really does suggest they've been cheating and stopped just before they thought they were going to get caught, yes they were fast at the end, but thats largely due to Button and Alonso running their engines fast early and for long and conserving fuel once the fight was over, RBR were WELL down and looked incredibly unaggressive on speed into corners, sliding about where normally the car is stuck to the ground like no car ever before. For me, that says RBR full stop, Webber nor Vettel deserve a thing.
Until everyone drives the same car around every track no one can talk about whose best with any accuracy, but then making excuses like who the car is built around, its still a car and the car certainly wasn't "built for Hamilton" last year. A good cars a good car, normally better drivers can do more with a better car than a less good driver, not always.
As for McClarens, I think they've yet to be the fastest car at any race, and for several races have had less pace than the Ferrari's, just FAR better consistancy. Alonso has had some bad luck, but has been monumentally stupid on just as many occassions as Hamilton, both maybe slightly less often than Vettel
When Alonso got the place over, Kubica, if he gave it up, he'd have been passed him in another 4 corners, instead he was an idiot about it and it ruined his race.
Plenty of people, even at the top, have had little shunts and hurt others races around them, Vettel's had a bad year someone out of the top 6 was always going to have caused more accidents than the rest, thats life, plus he's made it interesting and his crashes have been pretty hilarious, Webber/Button ones in particular.
We'll have to see if Red Bull's seeming lack of pace continues, if so it really does suggest they've been cheating and stopped just before they thought they were going to get caught, yes they were fast at the end, but thats largely due to Button and Alonso running their engines fast early and for long and conserving fuel once the fight was over, RBR were WELL down and looked incredibly unaggressive on speed into corners, sliding about where normally the car is stuck to the ground like no car ever before. For me, that says RBR full stop, Webber nor Vettel deserve a thing.
Until everyone drives the same car around every track no one can talk about whose best with any accuracy, but then making excuses like who the car is built around, its still a car and the car certainly wasn't "built for Hamilton" last year. A good cars a good car, normally better drivers can do more with a better car than a less good driver, not always.
2 things I've heard during years of F1 that ring true:
1. You change the car to suit the driver, not the other way round.
2. You don't get to be a WDC by luck.
For me Button is doing very well and compared to the start of the season seems to be growing into the team. I don't think he'll win it this year but if others keep making mistakes who knows, consistency is crucial for a champion and he has it in spades.
Whoever wins it in the end will deserve it, it's just churlish to suggest otherwise, but I'd like it to be Webber simply for the underdog comes good story. There's not many contenders who have had such a long journey to the top (except maybe Button).
1. You change the car to suit the driver, not the other way round.
2. You don't get to be a WDC by luck.
For me Button is doing very well and compared to the start of the season seems to be growing into the team. I don't think he'll win it this year but if others keep making mistakes who knows, consistency is crucial for a champion and he has it in spades.
Whoever wins it in the end will deserve it, it's just churlish to suggest otherwise, but I'd like it to be Webber simply for the underdog comes good story. There's not many contenders who have had such a long journey to the top (except maybe Button).
for someones who suposed to be so good he doesnt half **** up and when his engine was playing up yesterday it sounded like he was about to cry ....
he doesnt seem mentally strong enough of mature enough to be a world champion anytime soon i think plenty of people could have done a better job.
i have my doubts of wether he really is as good as redbull believe , webber was never seem as anything other than a good driver no teams seem to have thought he was anything special yet he seems easily a match for vettel
wish people would realise that when it comes to the mercedes
people think schumacher is suposed to be able to drive any turd and aparently the 96 ferrari was such a bad car but if you actually watch videos of the car you can easily see its got the total oposite handling!
96 ferrari = loose back end
2010 mercedes = staff as a plank of wood and would rather go in a straight line than around a corner.
i'd imagine the mclaren would be more schumachers liking and a lot less buttons
Last edited:
Certainly not. But we do expect him to be able to extract the maximum out of the available equipment. This is what Senna used to do. This is what we see Alonso (for the most part), doing. This is what we see Hamilton doing.
What we see MSc doing is getting beaten by another driver, in an identical car, which implies that MSc is not extracting the maximum out of the car.
yea this is what we see raikonnen doing oh wait he had that bad year aswell
Kimi was passed it, in his second year with Ferrari. For whatever reason, he just didnt care. Ferrari knew this and at considerable cost to themselves, decided to put Kimi "on the bench" (while they still pay his wages) and hire Alonso.
Kimi was passed it and it was acknowledged.
MSc appears to be passed it, but Mercedes (as yet), have not acknowledged that he is passed it.
Kimi was passed it and it was acknowledged.
MSc appears to be passed it, but Mercedes (as yet), have not acknowledged that he is passed it.
Speaking of Ferrari's pit stop, does anyone know the purpose of the yellow and black striped boards they hold up on either side of the car? I've not seen them at any other team. They seem to indicate the position the front wheels are to stop at or something.
Yeah Kimi did 3 years at ferrari and only the first year was barely adequate and the following year the gadgets were removed and kimis heart and fight went with them.
Even when kimi burst on the scene after only 23 races over two years in formula renault I wanted to see how he'd run without gadgets in f1.
He was awesome when Alonso won his first title, he was by far the faster driver and lucked out with reliability while alonso cruised home banking points. I prefer to remember that kimi than the one that ended up poncing around getting beaten by massa. If massa could beat the current spec kimi that easily I dread to think what kubica, hamilton or alonso would do to him.
shame it is not compared to the mclaren stop.
mclaren have always been one of the slower stop teams, red bull are by far the quickest its amazing to watch.