Poll: Italian Grand Prix 2018, Monza - Race 14/21

Rate the 2018 Italian Grand Prix out of ten


  • Total voters
    130
  • Poll closed .
There is no racing line when you go two-by-two. You leave space for the other driver, whether you're on the inside or outside. What's why I have a problem when Hamilton used to push Rosberg off the track repeatedly (and exclusively, he didn't do it to anyone else) and why Vettel was at fault today.


Absolute nonsense, and your previous post was full of it to. Ferrari have clearly and obviously the faster car. You can't take Kimi as a measurement of Ferrari's speed when almost every race Kimi is 10-20 seconds over a race distance slower than Vettel, same for Bottas and Mercedes.

On the one set of tires thing, the tires were irrelevant. All year you get blistering on ANY tire if you push too hard out of the pits, it's that simple. Kimi was over 6 seconds ahead of Ham when Ham came out of the pits. He got blistering because he pushed too hard, nothing more or less. Ham followed Kimi within 1.2 seconds for what 30+ laps and then went another 8 laps further than Kimi, following people really doesn't mess with your tires as much as people like to believe it does.

As for the racing line nonsense, there are hard and fast rules, if you're ahead at the apex you are entitled to space if you're on the outside, if you're on the inside and you're ahead at apex you're entitled to the racing line. The bull about Hamilton not shoving anyone off track but Rosberg is just laughable and biased. First, he's done it to plenty of people, second, Rosberg did it to Hamilton multiple times over their years in that team and Hamilton nor any one else ever cared about it, because it's normal racing. Also Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo, Bottas, Kimi, Verstappen and literally everyone on the grid does that because that is a fundamental way racing has worked for a very very long time.

The idea he only did that to Rosberg and that somehow even if true you have a problem with a standard racing principle which has been around for decades and every driver uses is utterly absurd.

Hamilton only really did it to Rosberg from 2014-2016.... because he was rarely fighting with anyone else but I'd be very surprised if there still aren't cases of him doing that to other drivers.

The fact is Rosberg made a huge deal out of it because instead of following , you know, the rules in racing, he decided to that one time despite being half a car length behind at the apex after a late braking move which had zero chance of turning into a pass rather than giving up the corner like everyone else would have done he decided to hit Hamilton. Then it became a thing, that Hamilton runs him wide and that he's some kind of victim of it. Rosberg literally did that to Canada at T1 earlier that season and Hamilton didn't say a thing, because it's how racing works. If you hang it out and hope for the best when you're too far back you end up off track or making contact. Why did Hamilton back out against Kimi in the same corner he passed Vettel, because he knew Kimi would be ahead at apex, he knew it would be a tight turn and he might make contact so he backed out early. More often than not drivers read it and back out early, when they don't they get run wide and most realise it's there fault, Rosberg turned into a cry baby where he could run Hamilton off but if Hamilton did it to him it was unfair, so he straight hit Hamilton while also pretending to be the victim.
 
The Mercedes was quicker all race on both tyres. If anything it shows how good a job Raikkonen and Vettel did to overturn Hamilton in qualifying.

What are you basing the merc being quicker on all race tires on? The fact that Kimi was slower than Hamilton?

Kimi was quicker than Bottas though? When Ferrari is half a second quicker, Hamilton will still be faster than Kimi in 8/10 races, when Mercedes is half a second quicker than Ferrari, Vettel will still usually be faster than Bottas. Every single piece of information this weekend implies Ferrari had the faster car, but the slower driver was the one leading the race and that became a problem.
 
Vettel is clearly irritated by the whole weekend. It will be interesting to see if he can clear his head because it is the only way he is going to secure this championship.
 
Vettel is clearly irritated by the whole weekend. It will be interesting to see if he can clear his head because it is the only way he is going to secure this championship.

He's not yet been able to change that aspect of his driving (his temper, hot head, and willingness to "go for it" even when it's the wrong thing to do), so I don't hold any hope he's going to change now. We've seen Hamilton start his career that way, then get more mature and rarely make mistakes. We've seen Vettel start his career, and then keep making the same mistakes and errors of judgement over and over. Vettel just can't control himself when he needs a cool head to make the right choices at the right moments.
 
So vettel still saying it was Lewis's fault and he wasn't left enough space. Imo he should now get a penalty for the next race, he clearly doesn't understand the rules and that could be a safety concern for other drivers.

Same with max, how he still think he gave bottas room is comical.
 
Jesus H Tapdancing Christ! :eek: :eek: :eek:

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Not in compliance, that means disqualification at the least.
 
Why?
There is a bigger problem - not only will Kimi not help, but also will he be the reason to lose the Championship.

How did Kimi not help? Is he supposed to realise in the half second between Vettel crossing the line and him that Vettel fluffed his qualifying lap and slam on the breaks? Vettel messed up his entire race by crashing into Lewis; Kimi did his best to win and take points off Lewis. It was only the strategy from Mercedes, faking Ferrari into an early stop and then bottling Kimi up behind Bottas that stopped him doing it.

Kimi has repeatedly helped Vettel out this year, and the last few years, it's only Vettel's lack of that final bit of talent that's holding him back, not Kimi.

Not in compliance, that means disqualification at the least.

Most minor infractions we've seen recently have been more of a "stop doing it" kind of affair than a disqualification. We'll see.
 
I've just finished watching.

Good race by Bottas, Kimi did well given his extreme tyre wear but dipping them onto the gravel constantly is going to do that.

Verstappen was extremely childish - "they're killing racing" - sorry but racing doesn't involve using your car as a weapon and trying to force others off the track like it's bumper cars. The same goes to Vettel who'd rather gamble on the outcome of a collision than let Lewis pass him and then have to race him. If Verstappen and Vettel want to see mature and fair racing then watch the passes between Kimi/Lewis.

When Verstappen said "yeah I know I'm losing time on Vettel but I don't care" all I could think is he needs to stop for a nappy change. :p
 
He's not yet been able to change that aspect of his driving (his temper, hot head, and willingness to "go for it" even when it's the wrong thing to do), so I don't hold any hope he's going to change now. We've seen Hamilton start his career that way, then get more mature and rarely make mistakes. We've seen Vettel start his career, and then keep making the same mistakes and errors of judgement over and over. Vettel just can't control himself when he needs a cool head to make the right choices at the right moments.
100% this.

Vettel is superb at starting from pole, pulling out a big lead in the first few laps and driving off into the distance. However, we've seen time and again that he's not as good when it comes to wheel-to-wheel racing and this, for me, is why he will never be as good a driver as Hamilton, even if he does win the WDC this year and go 5-4 up on Lewis.
 
Here we go then.

The Stewards therefore find the Car to be in breach of the regulation Article 3.7.1.d of the 2018 FIA Technical Regulations as clarified in TD/033-18 and order that Car 8 be Disqualified from the results and that the classification be amended.

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updated with a better copy
 
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100% this.

Vettel is superb at starting from pole, pulling out a big lead in the first few laps and driving off into the distance. However, we've seen time and again that he's not as good when it comes to wheel-to-wheel racing and this, for me, is why he will never be as good a driver as Hamilton, even if he does win the WDC this year and go 5-4 up on Lewis.

I think Hamilton is going to be remembered as one of the great champions. He engages with the fans, loves racing, and always seems to do something special with the car. Vettel is going to be remembered as someone that won a lot of races when he had the fastest car, but was never a great driver or great champion.
 
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