Poll: Italian Grand Prix 2019, Monza - Race 14/21
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Soldato
Edit: Oops. Hadn't noticed another page so hadn't report the report!
Doesn't say that there was contact, says may have been within the bounds of the white line when viewed from above. So... now their making up a "when viewed from above" clause.
The edges of the tyres are curved... So he wouldn't have been touching the white line which is what is specified in the rule book.
But yes... he was certainly in contact with the white line....
You are looking at as if it is the Hawk-Eye technology in tennis. It is not, it should never be judged so strictly. He was extremely close to the white line and it didn't give him any advantage, actually I think he lost time there.
Doesn't matter, the rule is totally clear and simple to officiate. There's no interpretation about advantage gained or not, or viewing it from above or specific angles, or "maybe". Are you outside the white line? If so, then you are off the track and your qualifying time doesn't count for that lap.
There's green between the wheel and the white line. He wasn't on the track. It's a slam dunk penalty.
It's stated in the regs that it's contact that matters, not some imaginary line from an angle they can't even see...
They've just come up with something that's completely new and also absolutely unprovable. Utter shambles.
As for strictly enforcing the regs... That's what they're for! This is actually one of the few that is black and white. They were also informed before FP3 that leaving the track there would cause your current and the next lap times to be deleted.
Also, that line would have allowed him to nail the throttle earlier and straighten out the last part of the Parabolica and get onto the straight faster and end up with a higher top speed. Which is why they were deleting 2 lap times.
Deleted member 651465
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Deleted member 651465
Senna in Japan 89 - didn’t complete the full race distance because he cut the chicane
Hamilton in Spa 08 - docked 25s after Rai forced him wide
The stewards have never been consistent but once in a while they drop a clanger. This is another, not so much for the incident itself... I get that it’s difficult to call stuff in real time and when they have every angle there’s really no hiding BUT to come out with the “benefit of the doubt” decision is astonishing.
Oh well, crazy end to Q3. Let’s hope the winner takes the chequered flag on merit not via the wheel of fortune penalty spinner that the stewards seem keen to use.
Hamilton in Spa 08 - docked 25s after Rai forced him wide
The stewards have never been consistent but once in a while they drop a clanger. This is another, not so much for the incident itself... I get that it’s difficult to call stuff in real time and when they have every angle there’s really no hiding BUT to come out with the “benefit of the doubt” decision is astonishing.
Oh well, crazy end to Q3. Let’s hope the winner takes the chequered flag on merit not via the wheel of fortune penalty spinner that the stewards seem keen to use.
Soldato
Interestingly Vettel wasn't investigated under article 27.3 for the turn 11 incident.
Albon was:
Vettel wasn't:
The "Race Director's Event Notes Version 3" states:
Article 12.1.1.i of the International Sporting Code states:
Not making a point, just saying. Given he wasn't investigated under article 27.3 (which stipulates necessary contact with track) maybe they can't penalise him in the same way. I'd love to know why the discrepancy though. Perhaps they were trying to apply some common sense after the chaos of Q3 - I wouldn't agree with that though. Hopefully they'll cover it tomorrow and we'll find out more.
On a similar way Bottas's lift under yellow flags must have been microscopic if at all. I'd love to see footage of that too.
Albon was:
Vettel wasn't:
The "Race Director's Event Notes Version 3" states:
Article 12.1.1.i of the International Sporting Code states:
Not making a point, just saying. Given he wasn't investigated under article 27.3 (which stipulates necessary contact with track) maybe they can't penalise him in the same way. I'd love to know why the discrepancy though. Perhaps they were trying to apply some common sense after the chaos of Q3 - I wouldn't agree with that though. Hopefully they'll cover it tomorrow and we'll find out more.
On a similar way Bottas's lift under yellow flags must have been microscopic if at all. I'd love to see footage of that too.
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F1 officiating seems to be done on the basis of maximising "entertainment" that's the problem, they want Bottas and Vettel on the 2nd row. Then again, one of the few times recently where they've enforced the rules as written (Canada) there was a sport-wide tantrum because some fans felt aggrieved about being denied "racing" by the correct enforcement of rules. Damned if they do, damned if they don't really. I'd rather see them enforce the rules as written otherwise what's the point in having them.
P.S. Place your bets how many drivers will not even attempt to take the first chicane at the start of the race tomorrow.
P.S. Place your bets how many drivers will not even attempt to take the first chicane at the start of the race tomorrow.
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He is starting 4th instead of 9th. How is that not an advantage?
Soldato
Just saw that qualifying. I usually don't watch F1 now due to location, and it being a bit of a joke.
That quali, what a farce. Stroll and Hulkenberg deserved more than the pitiful reprimand they got.
Time to go back to boring one lap shootout for top 10. These teams can't be trusted.
Edit: I understand why they say it, as it's the only way to get change. I fully disagree this kind of behaviour is dangerous though. Dangerous to earnings maybe.
That quali, what a farce. Stroll and Hulkenberg deserved more than the pitiful reprimand they got.
Time to go back to boring one lap shootout for top 10. These teams can't be trusted.
Edit: I understand why they say it, as it's the only way to get change. I fully disagree this kind of behaviour is dangerous though. Dangerous to earnings maybe.
Associate
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I think it was a terrible session representing the bad decisions made by stewards and F1 this year.
My personal feeling is that liberty put pressure on FIA/stewards to minimise any disruption to the top 4-6 drivers. The penalty’s given or not to those drivers has been terribly inconsistent and it seems like the previous lack of action is stopping the stewards making correct decisions now.
Verstappen’s Monaco release was given a slap on the wrist despite being unsafe and causing a collision in the pit lane (which could have been avoided if he had brakes and slotted behind. The penalty given was pathetic for something incredibly unsafe. We then get LeClerc unsafe release given only a fine! I think the problem is that if a 5-10s is given for unsafe release and collision in pit lane, what do you then give just an unsafe release??
The rules have been softened to keep the front of the championship close, but it has led to complete inconsistency.
My personal feeling is that liberty put pressure on FIA/stewards to minimise any disruption to the top 4-6 drivers. The penalty’s given or not to those drivers has been terribly inconsistent and it seems like the previous lack of action is stopping the stewards making correct decisions now.
Verstappen’s Monaco release was given a slap on the wrist despite being unsafe and causing a collision in the pit lane (which could have been avoided if he had brakes and slotted behind. The penalty given was pathetic for something incredibly unsafe. We then get LeClerc unsafe release given only a fine! I think the problem is that if a 5-10s is given for unsafe release and collision in pit lane, what do you then give just an unsafe release??
The rules have been softened to keep the front of the championship close, but it has led to complete inconsistency.
Man of Honour
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It’s a yoke.
Consistent though - if your in the running for the championship or a merc/Ferrari, let’s be as lenient as possible - I bet Canada sits heavily on the stewards minds.
Consistent though - if your in the running for the championship or a merc/Ferrari, let’s be as lenient as possible - I bet Canada sits heavily on the stewards minds.
Soldato
The stewards chose not to investigate him though, where as they chose to investigate albon immediately, the whole thing just stinks, especially after the statement regards that turn before qualifying even started.
What a complete farce of a session, Lewis made a good point, although I'm not sure if it's true at all, that all Ferrari (or anyone else) had to do is just make sure they are out front and not do a lap, everyone else behind would be in the same boat.
Nice summary of all the radio chat here:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07...-reveal-how-f1s-qualifying-shambles-unfolded/
Complete shambles.
The best is to return the 1-hour quali session from the Schumachers times. Screw that Q1-Q2-Q3 thingie.
Man of Honour
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Why bad? Yesterday, because of the sandbagging we didn't see the actual quali pace and new lap record that many had expected?
Speed should be number 1 priority. You know that the fastest lap is still 2004's Rubens Barichello??
Soldato
It was frequently 30/40 minutes of empty track from my memories. The last 10 minutes were usually great in fairness, but I always felt like I was just watching crowd, trees and cloud cover rather than cars.
Associate
The problem with that format was all the teams used to sit in the pits for 45 minutes and then everyone came out at once.
You can only imagine the huge number of blocking penalties we'd end up with now if we tried that!
Soldato
I would agree however Lewis getting that time penalty for his pit entry in Hockenheim doesn't go really along with your theory, as does the Vettel penalty in canada for his on/off/on the circuit at the chicane. Of course it could be argued that they penalised Lewis as he had a nice lead in the championship so knocking a few points off him would close things up a little, which would go along with your views, but the Vettel one still wouldn't go along with that theory.
Vettel was clearly over that line in Quali and should have had his time deleted immediately, it wasn't, and this isn't about Liberty this is about Ferrari and Monza and the Tifosi, and the stewards just didn't have the bottle to uphold their own rules and I think that's all it's about imo.
I don't remember it as such. I remember it as thrilling sessions between Montoya and Schumacher, etc (for example) who exchanged fastest laps during the entire 60 minutes.
It was constant lap improvement over the whole duration of the session.
No one had waited the end, I don't remember such a thing.