I meant free as in available rather than cost wise. TBH though even at £6 a shot I don't think they are bad value. £6 gets me less than 60 miles in my Focus TDCi, probably nearer 50 miles at motorway prices.
I've given up on LPG - the future is Electric.
- Thread starter Hawk Tuah
- Start date
I meant free as in available rather than cost wise. TBH though even at £6 a shot I don't think they are bad value. £6 gets me less than 60 miles in my Focus TDCi, probably nearer 50 miles at motorway prices.
Soldato
I hope no-one reads this and believes it's all true.
20 years for EVs to to take the lead? Doubtful. Maybe 10? The countries that are planning to ban the sale of ICEs by 2030 will make this happen much faster than you think.
How are petrol engines putting out 'a fraction' of the emissions of diesel engines? In petrol engines the CO2 is usually higher and the particulates from direct-injection engines are in the same league as diesels.
I guess we should all go buy hydrogen-powered ICE vehicles!
Soldato
I think the intention is much more than that. For example it's coming to Europe as the Ampera-e (and probably to China as well). It will also be rolled out to other US states over time.
I dont think GM have said they will limit production to 30k units a year have they? There was some talk of 30k in the first year but that's meaningless in the long term. The plant has capability for 90k a year for example, although the Sonic is also built on the same line (but sales in the Sonic segment are falling). Even 30k units a year isnt small - Nissan Leaf sales peaked at that level in 2014 in the US.
Some analysts say production could go as high as 80k a year. And the loss per vehicle will drop significantly if production increases that much.
Co2 is only one of the pollutants. Diesels produce a lot of no2, which is much worse than co2.
Soldato
I wonder what the neighbours would think if I got a 500 gallon tank buried in the garden and had a little pump setup on the drive
No, it would be a complete pain in the bum especially given the current charging infrastructure in the Cambridge area. I have done a journey of 30 miles with a predicted range of 20 miles as like a ICE car it's keeps some battery in reserve for when you get to 0% and I had to drive at 50mph rather than 65mph (not a problem as it turned out as the A14 was busy). My point is, that with the Zoe I just don't think about fuelling the car, we don't use it for long journeys (though a 40kW version would change that) it's plugged in when we get home so it's always full when we start a journey.
He's said that it's primarily a town car and that it's used once a week for a work commute. As for the distance to bring the car home, I think about that like getting a train/plane to collect a car from a distance away, not something I want to be doing often but something I'll do to get the right car for me home.
I'm really in two minds about the £6 charge for Ecotricity, on the one hand it is silly expensive per kWh, on the otherhand it keeps the Outlanders off the chargers as when it was free the charge points would frequently be blocked by someone getting their 1.5kW of power whilst they stopped for 30 minutes preventing a full EV getting 12 - 20kW in the same time period.
I've been doing some manmaths as I'm on a particularly boring conference call at the moment, you're doing 180miles/week commuting and paying £14 (£12 plus assuming £2 to get you back to full charge when you get home) for that. However as you mention it's primarily a town car safe to add on another 120miles/week? which should cost you around £5.00 assuming you charge at home with no solar input. End result is around 6p/mile which is still a lot better than the 11p/mile you are going to get from a diesel averaging 50mpg (and would you get that with lots of short town journeys?) or a £780 fuel saving/year. I guess overall despite the high headline figure of £6 per charge it makes sense for you to have a far better chance of finding a free charger.
prepared to have his maths pulled to pieces
I wonder what the neighbours would think if I got a 500 gallon tank buried in the garden and had a little pump setup on the drive
Which is entirely practical for Diesel. No different from oil central heating really.
And indeed, If I lived somewhere miles away from the neaerest filling station, something I would seriously consider doing (I am sure that in places like Rural USA (Or even Rural France) this is quite a common practice)
Caporegime
Has any legislation actually passes to make this ban a reality? Just sounds like the usual political BS to me, Germany out of all country's would be mad to implement a 'ban' on the sale of ICE vehicles, make them more expensive to own for sure, ban no.
Soldato
I use that and Zap-Map. Problem around Cambridge is a lot of the charge points are destination charging at 7kW which wouldn't be a huge problem in an emergency but they were installed by Source East who no longer exist and there's no guarantee that your card will work. There's then the secondary problem of faulty charge points not being repaired or even being removed all together (Ely train station). There are areas of the UK like Milton Keynes, Luton and I understand parts of Scotland where the infrastructure is good and well maintained with phone support when needed and as much as I'm not a fan of Ecotricitys pricing model they do keep their chargers on line making motorway travel a viable option for those who need it or are willing to pay. Around here though (with the exception of the A14, Ecotricity charge points) I simply can't rely on an unknown charger. On the plus side, I do now have a card that works at my local Park and Ride which is free to use and will mean mostly free charging when it warms up enough for SWMBO to not be obsessed with pre-heating the car every morning
Not sure I agree with this, you don't generally travel 100+ miles spend 30 mins at a destination and turn round and go back. More typical behaviour is to spend 5-12 hours and then go back. 8 hours @ 7KW is 56KW hours which is good for around 180 miles of range in a Tesla. More if your in something more efficient like an Ionic or an i3 (yes I know they max out at 28kw but that is good for 120 miles...).
destination chargers are key at places like long stay car parks and hotels etc.
The cost of putting in a 50KW DC fast charger is in the region of $16k vs less than $1k for a 7kw. I know if I was going somewhere for the day I would prefer 16 7KW chargers than 1 50KW. It only takes one to park there all day and your ruined.
Keep DC fast charging to motorways and major trunk roads.
Last edited:
Caporegime
I drive 100+ miles, spend less than 30 minutes at a destination, and then go back all the time.
Its called "buying things" (that are too large/valuable/inconvenient to post, or the seller doesn't want to post)
Its called "buying things" (that are too large/valuable/inconvenient to post, or the seller doesn't want to post)
I drive 100+ miles, spend less than 30 minutes at a destination, and then go back all the time.
Its called "buying things" (that are too large/valuable/inconvenient to post, or the seller doesn't want to post)
So basically a 200 mile trip then?
The poster above was suggesting that DC fast chargers are needed in Cambridge which is simply not the case. There should be some on the M11, A11 and A14 but there isn't if you come up the A11 side.
If you travel from London to Norwich, the only DC fast charge that is available is at the services at the Stansted Airport junction which is nuts.
There is one at Newmarket on the A14 but its westbound only and its close to a 20 mile round trip to get round to it and back again.
Classic strawman; arguing my point cannot be true by utilising an extreme version of what I wrote.
I wasn't referring to spending 30 minutes at a destination. Nor was I suggesting 50kWh rapid chargers should be installed everywhere. And who the hell mentioned Cambridge?
Installing 14kW chargers would allow ~45+ miles of range per hour of charging. Plenty to allow a few hours in destinations that are a reasonable distance away. My opinion on this is based on experience; it's not uncommon for me to be waiting for my EV to finish charging. And that's with a first gen Zoe - where I go is limited by the range of the vehicle. A second gen would be able to travel further, but it would also need up to double the time on a 7kW charger to get me home. At this point, it's the charger limiting where I travel.
Furthermore, many cities offer free parking for EVs while charging. This is rarely more than 3 hours free, and it seems unlikely that the duration of this offer will be extended to accomodate vehicles with larger batteries. So after 3 hours it'll be time to shift the car. Great fun if you were planning to stay longer.
I wasn't referring to spending 30 minutes at a destination. Nor was I suggesting 50kWh rapid chargers should be installed everywhere. And who the hell mentioned Cambridge?
Installing 14kW chargers would allow ~45+ miles of range per hour of charging. Plenty to allow a few hours in destinations that are a reasonable distance away. My opinion on this is based on experience; it's not uncommon for me to be waiting for my EV to finish charging. And that's with a first gen Zoe - where I go is limited by the range of the vehicle. A second gen would be able to travel further, but it would also need up to double the time on a 7kW charger to get me home. At this point, it's the charger limiting where I travel.
Furthermore, many cities offer free parking for EVs while charging. This is rarely more than 3 hours free, and it seems unlikely that the duration of this offer will be extended to accomodate vehicles with larger batteries. So after 3 hours it'll be time to shift the car. Great fun if you were planning to stay longer.
Last edited:
I drive 100+ miles, spend less than 30 minutes at a destination, and then go back all the time.
Its called "buying things" (that are too large/valuable/inconvenient to post, or the seller doesn't want to post)
that's not what destination chargers are for though, destination chargers are for places you spend lots of time, like hotels.
Which is why the charging network needs a good mix of both, there's no point at charging at 100kw everywhere, when your cars going to be there for like 12 hours.
just came across this for the lazy, im surprised how effecient it is, thought it would be far less efficient.
https://www.pluglesspower.com/
Last edited:
Soldato
Soldato
There's lease deals for £500 down and £140 a month on these for 8k mileage
Really tempting, busy doing a spreadsheet on savings made vs keeping the A4
Really tempting, busy doing a spreadsheet on savings made vs keeping the A4
It is tempting (and I coulddn't resist). Just don't get mis'sold the fact that it'll do 100+ miles on one charge.
Although, the 2018 model is even more tempting.... http://carslane.com/2018-nissan-leaf/
Permabanned
Being given an E63 AMG tomorrow... does that ruffle and jimmies in here?
