I've given up on LPG - the future is Electric.

It's the range that's crud on the batteries. They are just no good. Just read OPs saga of getting the damn thing home. Sod that.

I've got a 350 mile trip to Glasgow Thursday night. My car will get me there without the need to stop even once for fuel, and leave circa 200 miles range when I'm there. On £50 of fuel. It must be at least 4 stops in a leaf? So another 2 hours onto a long journey.

Sorry I disagree that these are any good for anything more than pottering around town (great for a taxi firm I guess in a small place!).
 
SeatIbiza said:
It's the range that's crud on the batteries. They are just no good. Just read OPs saga of getting the damn thing home. Sod that.

I've got a 350 mile trip to Glasgow Thursday night. My car will get me there without the need to stop even once for fuel, and leave circa 200 miles range when I'm there. On £50 of fuel. It must be at least 4 stops in a leaf? So another 2 hours onto a long journey.

Sorry I disagree that these are any good for anything more than pottering around town (great for a taxi firm I guess in a small place!).
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There are many different cars for many different things. There are plenty of fuel cars that are not suitable for a 350 mile trip and some fuel cars couldn't do a 350mile trip without stopping for fuel. No one is saying use EV's for 350mile trips that's not what EV's are for.

What EV's are really good for is your average every day driving. Based on the average daily drive the average family is better off using an EV for the daily driving and having a fuel car as the secondary car for the odd long range driving. 350 miles is well outside the normal every day drive.

The way I see it for the average every day drive EV's save a lot of time and money compared to fuel cars. When I look at my own driving habits 100% of the time an EV beats a fuel car just from time saved yet alone fuel costs.
 
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Pottsey said:
What EV's are really good for is your average every day driving. Based on the average daily drive the average family is better off using an EV for the daily driving and having a fuel car as the secondary car for the odd long range driving. 350 miles is well outside the normal every day drive.
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How much saving can you really claim here? Having to run / tax / insure / maintain / depreciation on two vehicles, is this really a cost saving?

Provided you only have use for a single vehicle at a time its going to be cheaper to run a single small engined diesel car, and as an added bonus you can forget about all the limited millage BS.
 
Firestar_3x said:
How much saving can you really claim here? Having to run / tax / insure / maintain / depreciation on two vehicles, is this really a cost saving?

Provided you only have use for a single vehicle at a time its going to be cheaper to run a single small engined diesel car, and as an added bonus you can forget about all the limited millage BS.
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Because a large number of families already have two cars... The costs are no more if one is an EV.
 
Firestar_3x said:
How much saving can you really claim here? Having to run / tax / insure / maintain / depreciation on two vehicles, is this really a cost saving?

Provided you only have use for a single vehicle at a time its going to be cheaper to run a single small engined diesel car, and as an added bonus you can forget about all the limited millage BS.
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Even for some its cheaper to run 1 EV then 1 fuel car, I fall into that category. The longest drive I do is 30miles round and with an EV I could drive off my driveway every morning on a full tank. That bonus alone to me makes EV when suitable far better then fuel cars. No more wasting time getting fuel just drive away from your home on a full tank every morning. EV's to me mean no more wasting time getting fuel, no more planning where to fuel up or going out my way to get fuel, just get in and drive all for lower fuel costs.

Clearly if you drive long range and have 1 car then an EV is not the best option. But a large amount of family's don't drive long range and already need 2 or more cars. So there is no extra cost, only savings in having an EV for them.

Unless I missed a change EV's don't pay tax and have lower insurance, maintenance and fuel costs. Plus there is the time saving for some people that alone is worth it for many.
 
Problem is, I wouldn't class 100 mile roundtrip as a long drive. Not to mention the efficiency of the battery itself will begin to degrade so that 100 miles (best case) becomes 85 in a year, 60 in two years etc.

I have solar panels and work 11 miles away from home but the idea of dealing with a car which is constantly 1 trip to work and a stop at the supermarket away from a battery warning wasn't appealing.
 
EVH said:
Problem is, I wouldn't class 100 mile roundtrip as a long drive. Not to mention the efficiency of the battery itself will begin to degrade so that 100 miles (best case) becomes 85 in a year, 60 in two years etc.

I have solar panels and work 11 miles away from home but the idea of dealing with a car which is constantly 1 trip to work and a stop at the supermarket away from a battery warning wasn't appealing.
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That's not true you don't lose 15miles in 1 year or end up at 85% or end up at 60miles in 2 years you can pretty much be on or near full battery for years. I guess its not suitable for everyone but if you have a driveway you don't need to stop at a supermarket the idea is you park it at home, plug it in that takes all of 10seconds then drive it away tomorrow on full never having to visit for fuel or waste time fuelling up again at a supermarket. Clearly EV's are not suitable for everyone but for many people they are great offering a large amount of advantages.
 
EVH said:
Problem is, I wouldn't class 100 mile roundtrip as a long drive. Not to mention the efficiency of the battery itself will begin to degrade so that 100 miles (best case) becomes 85 in a year, 60 in two years etc.

I have solar panels and work 11 miles away from home but the idea of dealing with a car which is constantly 1 trip to work and a stop at the supermarket away from a battery warning wasn't appealing.
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I wouldn't class 100 mile round trip as a long drive either, but its not something I do regularly.

In fact I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've done more than that since September, and two of those were in my gf's diesel (700 and 400 mile round trips).

If I replaced my ST with an EV I wouldn't have to change my habits in the slightest, as my gf would still have a car and I could borrow that if I ever needed to do a long trip myself or we'd use that if we were both going somewhere.

If it wasn't for me not having regular use of a driveway, enjoying my ST too much and not being able to afford a Tesla (as the only logical replacement :p), I'd have one.
 
SeatIbiza said:
It's the range that's crud on the batteries. They are just no good. Just read OPs saga of getting the damn thing home. Sod that.

I've got a 350 mile trip to Glasgow Thursday night. My car will get me there without the need to stop even once for fuel, and leave circa 200 miles range when I'm there. On £50 of fuel. It must be at least 4 stops in a leaf? So another 2 hours onto a long journey.

Sorry I disagree that these are any good for anything more than pottering around town (great for a taxi firm I guess in a small place!).
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It is the efficiency of the modern ICE car and the refueling infrastructure that makes a 350 mile trip a complete non event. Go back far enough and you had to make sure that you had enough fuel in tin cans strapped to the outside of your car before you set off on a trip.

Hopefully proper infrastructure will come for EV's. At the moment I'd say that the current efforts are nothing more than the bare minimum to cover CSR or to be able to point at the 2 charging points in a 2000 space car park and say "Look! We're environmentally aware!" That is why, in my opinion, you can only rely on one source of juice at the moment and that is from your own property. We will need a big shift in ownership for this to change though and it is the people who are willing to struggle with an EV pushing the envelope of their use that will drive it. On the one hand, good on them. On the other, I've never been one to be the martyr.

As has been pointed out EV's aren't for everyone but I would argue the case for them being a suitable alternative for many people. In fact thinking about friends and family I can pick out plenty of people who have been driving for well over 10 years (five times that in some cases) and have never even driven half the range of a Nissan Leaf in one trip.
 
Skillmister said:
In Amsterdam well over 50% of taxis were Teslas when I went last year
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Which is a tiny place...they work there - it's when you're a motorway driver they struggle (I'm talking more of the hateful Leaf here). However, Teslas are a) expensive and b) have bigger* ranges that the on offer from Nissan so are probably best of both worlds. Saying that, I'd still have to stop once on my journey in Tesla.

*claimed
 
I've been toying with the idea of an EV for a few months now. I only do a 5 mile commute so would be ideal for me, but there has been one major thing preventing me...

I'm not able to park near my house, so would be unable to charge at home.
We have EV points at work, but these have been out of order on numerous occasions.
 
What's interesting in this thread is that people are getting very fixated on the range of an EV that was launched in 2010 as to why an EV isn't a suitable car for them or just generally awful, remember 2010? it was the year the original iPad was launched and would you use that as a reason to dismiss tablet use today?

The Leaf was way ahead of the game in 2010 and I think history will remember it very well but things have really moved on since it was launched. Nissan already updated it with a 30kW battery pack and even that's now behind the game with the recent launch of the 40kW Zoe that will do 120miles in the depths of winter and 180-200 miles in the summer. This is still not enough for a once a year 350 mile trip to Glasgow without stopping but then no one is claiming that it is or even that EVs are a good solution for that. What amused me is seeing people use words like never and rubbish to describe EVs. Never is a very long time and having seen the battery capacity (and range) of EVs double in the last 4 years it's not unreasonable to think that by 2021 we could be seeing affordable EVs with 200 mile/300 mile (winter/summer) range. Rubbish is also an interest way to describe them when talking about charging, I can agree that the infrastructure is currently poor but it's the classic chicken vs. egg situation what I have found in 16 month of EV use is that your mindset and expectations of range change significantly, if you have 20 miles of range and 15 miles home you just drive home, you don't worry about refuelling because you just plug in when you get home. I compare this to driving my BMW where I frequently arrive back at Heathrow only to realise (with annoyance) that I have to stop on the way home for fuel because whilst I can get home it needs to be refuelled before I can go out again. For me, one of those frustrating 10 minute diversions when I just want to be in front of the TV with a beer compared to just plugging the car in and forgetting about it.

Anyway, enough rambling, I'd suggest that just because a 6 year old piece of technology doesn't fit your requirements or view of the world doesn't make it a bad product, just not one that is aimed at you.
 
rossk26 said:
I've been toying with the idea of an EV for a few months now. I only do a 5 mile commute so would be ideal for me, but there has been one major thing preventing me...

I'm not able to park near my house, so would be unable to charge at home.
We have EV points at work, but these have been out of order on numerous occasions.
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Have a look at https://www.zap-map.com and see if there are many charging points local to you. Friend often charges at a local carpark (free to park, free to charge) 3 minute walk from his house. NE seems to be quite well served for charge points as the Leaf seem very popular up there due to (I guess) Sunderland production and everyone up there getting friends and family discount.
 
Del Lardo said:
If you have 20 miles of range and 15 miles home you just drive home, you don't worry about refuelling because you just plug in when you get home. I compare this to driving my BMW where I frequently arrive back at Heathrow only to realise (with annoyance) that I have to stop on the way home for fuel because whilst I can get home it needs to be refuelled before I can go out again. For me, one of those frustrating 10 minute diversions when I just want to be in front of the TV with a beer compared to just plugging the car in and forgetting about it.
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Why don't you have a 20 litre Jerry can in your garage then you would never have that problem?
 
Del Lardo said:
Anyway, enough rambling, I'd suggest that just because a 6 year old piece of technology doesn't fit your requirements or view of the world doesn't make it a bad product, just not one that is aimed at you.
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The car is 6+ years old, but the new 30kWh battery with the "improved" range was last year (2016) and is still only 155 miles and that's manufacturer claimed which a la VAG we know is BS. In reality it's more like 100 miles on the 30kWh battery as shown in tests and probably less than that here in the winter.

Perhaps if you don't work and have all the time in the world to sit in motorway service stations waiting for it to charge then it's not a problem (but then you only have one life, why waste it sitting on a car charging up).

Ignoring the costs of fuel because in reality it's not much, a diesel will do 500+ miles on a 50l tank of fuel, my octavia VRS does and my bmw 118d does at least that and there are much more fuel efficient cars than those. Hell I can get 350 miles out of my RS4 tank if on a run. So for it to be a viable alternative the EV needs to do at least that IMO. Tesla are getting there but it's still a way off really.

I completely agree that EVs are great for around town, they reduce pollution, noise and are suited to traffic - would have been great for me when I lied and cycled in london every day. However the OP doesn't appear to drive around town and I can't think of anything worse to be on the motorway (gwizz thing maybe!?) especially with the distance he did to bring it back.
 
adam cool dude said:
Why don't you have a 20 litre Jerry can in your garage then you would never have that problem?
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Because he can't fill up the jerry can from a pump in his house? What a ridiculous post.

lordrobs said:
Go back far enough and you had to make sure that you had enough fuel in tin cans strapped to the outside of your car before you set off on a trip.
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I think people like to ignore the fact it is relatively new technology and dismiss it based on current models.
 
I'm an advocate of EVs but I have to admit, where home charging isn't possible, their usefulness over an ICE vehicle is questionable.

Every time I put my Tesla into the garage I plug it in. It's second nature now, I don't even think about doing it, it's no different to how I use my phone or laptop. Therefore it's always on 80% charge when I go to drive it and no round trip is every more than the available range. Therefore, for me, range is even less of a consideration than it is with my ICE vehicles.

However this only works because I have a secure garage. If I had street parking I'd have to plan trips to public chargers, similar to fuelling an ICE vehicle but with much more wasted time. Long term, the solution is public chargers on every street but that's decades away.
 
Adz said:
I'm an advocate of EVs but I have to admit, where home charging isn't possible, their usefulness over an ICE vehicle is questionable.

Every time I put my Tesla into the garage I plug it in. It's second nature now, I don't even think about doing it, it's no different to how I use my phone or laptop. Therefore it's always on 80% charge when I go to drive it and no round trip is every more than the available range. Therefore, for me, range is even less of a consideration than it is with my ICE vehicles.

However this only works because I have a secure garage. If I had street parking I'd have to plan trips to public chargers, similar to fuelling an ICE vehicle but with much more wasted time. Long term, the solution is public chargers on every street but that's decades away.
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Automatic charging would be good. Maybe something like bumper cars, high voltage exposed wire with a open lattice incredibly dangerous live metal mesh low ceiling so when you reverse the metal rod touches the ceiling and starts charging.
 
Del Lardo said:
if you have 20 miles of range and 15 miles home you just drive home, you don't worry about refuelling because you just plug in when you get home. I compare this to driving my BMW where I frequently arrive back at Heathrow only to realise (with annoyance) that I have to stop on the way home for fuel because whilst I can get home it needs to be refuelled before I can go out again. For me, one of those frustrating 10 minute diversions when I just want to be in front of the TV with a beer compared to just plugging the car in and forgetting about it.
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Under those specific circumstances the EV sounds ok. If you have 20 miles of range and 40 miles journey remaining do you still find the EV more convenient than a petrol/diesel engine?
 
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