I've given up on LPG - the future is Electric.

[Orionaut]

In Amsterdam well over 50% of taxis were Teslas when I went last year

There is a very good reason why Holland is particularly well suited to EV's

 

[lordrobs]

Ignoring the costs of fuel because in reality it's not much, a diesel will do 500+ miles on a 50l tank of fuel, my octavia VRS does and my bmw 118d does at least that and there are much more fuel efficient cars than those. Hell I can get 350 miles out of my RS4 tank if on a run. So for it to be a viable alternative the EV needs to do at least that IMO.

How many cars do you own?!

The other point is how far do you drive without stopping? I do a fair bit of driving but if I do 200 miles in one stint I feel like I've done a lot of driving. The most I've ever done non stop was Newcastle to Norwich but that is a trip I'd normally break up at some point.

From the point of leaving the car to getting back to it on even a quick coffee stop is normally around 20 minutes anyway so I'm sure I could lose another 10 minutes thumbing the magazines in WH Smiths while the car does a quick 30 minute 80% top up.

My issue at the moment is that I wouldn't be confident in being able to just pull up at any major services and be able to roll into a free charging station. That for me is the sticking point for an EV as an only vehicle in my circumstances. We'll need to do the sums on it but I'd be surprised if we don't at least consider a Zoe as a replacement car for my wife though.

 

[SeatIbiza]

How many cars do you own?!

The other point is how far do you drive without stopping? I do a fair bit of driving but if I do 200 miles in one stint I feel like I've done a lot of driving. The most I've ever done non stop was Newcastle to Norwich but that is a trip I'd normally break up at some point.

From the point of leaving the car to getting back to it on even a quick coffee stop is normally around 20 minutes anyway so I'm sure I could lose another 10 minutes thumbing the magazines in WH Smiths while the car does a quick 30 minute 80% top up.

My issue at the moment is that I wouldn't be confident in being able to just pull up at any major services and be able to roll into a free charging station. That for me is the sticking point for an EV as an only vehicle in my circumstances. We'll need to do the sums on it but I'd be surprised if we don't at least consider a Zoe as a replacement car for my wife though.

3 at the moment but the BMW is going shortly pending a sale (no real need for 2 diesels) but I might replace it with something else. I did have 4 cars at one point!

I do a good 200-300 mile journeys in one stint all the time. I'm pretty sure lots of people do who (unfortunately) use the motorway network. I don't plan to stop for the 350 miles to Glasgow for example.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Well, week one completed. Absolutely not hassle at all.

The half hour break on the way in was fine. I always have a break on my journey anyway. By the time I'd used the amenities, and had 10 minutes relaxing I was ready to go again.

I had over half a battery left when I got to work, and then I was able to charge for free in Southend without any problem, so the car was fully primed for my journey home.

The recharge point on the journey home is equidistant, so I was able to drive as I would a normal car, heating on, keeping up with traffic. Again, the half hour stop was perfectly well timed, as I could use the amenities, get changed for footie training (where I head after work on a Tuesday), and then continue my journey without having to eek out any efficiencies.

Now I'm back in driving local mode - so eco mode is off, and charging to 80% again.

I do need to travel to Brighton in a few weeks. Looking at the available recharging points - I'll be using an ICE for that journey.

 

[Pottsey]

Perhaps if you don't work and have all the time in the world to sit in motorway service stations waiting for it to charge then it's not a problem (but then you only have one life, why waste it sitting on a car charging up).

On the other side most people don't do long drives and for those people the EV's save time. For millions of people EV's would save time compered against fuel cars whom have to waste time fuelling constantly. Yes EV's are not the best choice for 100+ mile driving but most people don't do that. If you do less then 60miles a day and can charge at home then EV's work out better then fuel cars and most people do less then 60miles a day. Relatively speaking only a small number of drivers do more then 60miles a day its all about using the right car for the right job.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

My issue at the moment is that I wouldn't be confident in being able to just pull up at any major services and be able to roll into a free charging station.

Motorway charging points aren't free. They're £6 a go. An EV is not a cheap way of doing motorway journeys. It's either the same, or possibly more expensive than an efficient ICE.

PS - I don't know if you have to pay for the Tesla superchargers. But if you're thinking of buying a Tesla, you're not buying a car to save money.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Automatic charging would be good. Maybe something like bumper cars, high voltage exposed wire with a open lattice incredibly dangerous live metal mesh low ceiling so when you reverse the metal rod touches the ceiling and starts charging.

When you get to a fuel station, do you sit in the car and beep the horn until an attendant comes to 'fill her up'?

How much effort do you think it is plugging a car in when you get home?

 

[Glaucus]

currently superchargers are free for ever, unlimited usage.
In 4 days any car ordered will get i forget its either 400kw or roughly 1000 miles a year free, then pay.

For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually so that all owners can continue to enjoy free Supercharging during travel. Beyond that, there will be a small fee to Supercharge which will be charged incrementally and cost less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car

although it says 1st they extended it by 2 weeks.

Automatic charging would be good. Maybe something like bumper cars, high voltage exposed wire with a open lattice incredibly dangerous live metal mesh low ceiling so when you reverse the metal rod touches the ceiling and starts charging.

or, teslas is actively working on a solution, so cars can automatically go and repark themselves after charging freeing up the supercharger automatically.

imo the only reason we arent seeing them yet is government licensing to allow fully autonomus cars in car parks. Untill goverments allow that its pointless.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Ha ha. When you return from holiday to find you car has gone, as it's driven itself to a charger.

I'd have thought it would be easier to make the chargers semi mobile. Some kind of sky crane setup, where it could traverse a section of the car park - rather than moving the cars themselves.

Of course, it would be easier to just employ people to do it. But then I guess a robot can't go on strike for weeks on end. Maybe Tesla should be working on driverless trains.

 

[Glaucus]

how would that be easier, teslas come with all the hardware to self drive, and can park themselfs, a much easier solution, with little cost. you can even summon a tesla so wouldnt even need to go walking through the car park, or can just have your location shown on the app.

what also will be interesting is now CCS is rolling out 400kw chargers, what suercharger v3 will offer and any car announcements to produce a car that can charge anywhere near that rate. The faraday future car can charge (supposedly) at 400kw.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

how would that be easier, teslas come with all the hardware to self drive, and can park themselfs, a much easier solution, with little cost. you can even summon a tesla so wouldnt even need to go walking through the car park, or can just have your location shown on the app.

what also will be interesting is now CCS is rolling out 400kw chargers, what suercharger v3 will offer and any car announcements to produce a car that can charge anywhere near that rate. The faraday future car can charge (supposedly) at 400kw.

I suppose EVs with bigger the batteries will have more cells, so the amount of current per cell would be the same as existing EVs.

The VW bus concept has a 101kw battery - 4 time the size of my Nissan, so I'd expect it to be able to take 4 x the current and charge at a similar rate.

Maybe it's just the way my brain works. Simple solutions for simple problems.

 

[Glaucus]

I suppose EVs with bigger the batteries will have more cells, so the amount of current per cell would be the same as existing EVs.

The VW bus concept has a 101kw battery - 4 time the size of my Nissan, so I'd expect it to be able to take 4 x the current and charge at a similar rate.

Maybe it's just the way my brain works. Simple solutions for simple problems.

this is part of the reason, but cell technology is another FF91 is only 130kwh, whilst tesla is between 80-100kwh and only does 140kw charging. despite what peopel say cell technology is improving every year. IIRC its something like 30% overall since tesla started. which ain't to be sniffed at and tahts before we get to their new batteries which have just started rolling off the production line.

so many people still dismissing EVs and saying why etc, just look at any technology, same people said that about tablets(that thread was hilarious), or mobile phones, when mobiles where first released they where a brick, who wanted them, no infrastructure etc, it only took was it 20 years to become embeeded into majority of consumers.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

currently superchargers are free for ever, unlimited usage.
In 4 days any car ordered will get i forget its either 400kw or roughly 1000 miles a year free, then pay.



although it says 1st they extended it by 2 weeks.


or, teslas is actively working on a solution, so cars can automatically go and repark themselves after charging freeing up the station.

imo the only reason we arent seeing them yet is government licensing to allow fully autonomus cars in car parks. Untill goverments allow that its pointless.

The reason they aren't allowed is cos the technology isn't ready. We are years from all environment all condition driving like that.

It's a nice idea this auto charge this, drive there that but really the best solution is to simply plug in at home. Wireless charging simply increases install cost and subsequent energy bills.

Samsung are focusing on fast charging cells so the full up in a conventional manner for those rarer trips where you need more than home energy. Stuffing loads of batteries in and weight just drives up the normal use consumption.

 

[McPhee]

I'm with you on that one. If I was given a choice between a 200 mile EV that can charge in 15 minutes, and a 500 mile EV that takes 2 hours to recharge, I'd pick the former every time. It's likely cheaper, and stopping for 15 minutes every 200 miles is something I'd do anyway (probably more like every 150 TBH). Chucking in automatic wireless charging wouldn't make the latter car more appealing, only more expensive.

Charging speed is the main gripe I have with the new Zoe. Range is decent, but charging rates haven't increased. Buy the new standard model and it'll take about an hour and a half to recharge on one of Ecotricity's chargers (so £18 a time!...). On long journeys it's only going to be 45 minutes faster (total journey time) than the old (R240) model.

Actually, that does bring me to another gripe; the government funding the installation of 3kWh and 7kWh chargers. Looking ahead, they're a total waste of money. With a bigger battery, they aren't needed for short hops. And for longer journeys, they're pointless - you'd get to the destination, get enough charge for part of the journey home, and then have to recharge on route anyway.

 

[Nasher]

The main problem is still storing enough energy, weight and cost. I'd say we are 20 years away at least for EVs replacing petrol engines. Especially as efficient petrol engines are now even replacing diesels, they are catching them on MPG but a fraction of the emissions and cost less.

For now I think Lexus have the right idea. ALL their current models are now petrol hybrids, which is a great middle ground. But still, not cheap.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Since reading this thread I've gone hunting for a decent EV. Disappointed that apart from a lolexpensive Tesla I'm limited to a Zoe or Leaf unless I want a Golf with an 80 mile range?

If I could charge at work I'd consider it. I just need them to let me stick a cable in to the electricity our 500MW turbine puts out

 

[Glaucus]

Since reading this thread I've gone hunting for a decent EV. Disappointed that apart from a lolexpensive Tesla I'm limited to a Zoe or Leaf unless I want a Golf with an 80 mile range?

If I could charge at work I'd consider it. I just need them to let me stick a cable in to the electricity our 500MW turbine puts out

yeah there's no real options at the moment,

there is a new leaf this year with a larger battery(although they havent said what kwh) which might be the only real option, but they don't seem fussed on supporting very fast charge times, but we'll have to wait and see.

the chevy bolt is 200mile but they are only using it for fleet efficiency, lose $9k per vehicle due to the battery tech they are using and will only produce 30k a year and only certain US states. So not much chance of getting one.

model 3 is the other 200mile car on the horizon but your realistically looking at best part of 2 years before delivery.

and although a lot of other car companies have now said they will go into the ev market, most are stating 2020-2022

 

[Nasher]

You could always tow a diesel generator around

 

[McPhee]

You could always tow a diesel generator around

I know it was a joke, but most EVs can't tow.

I'm not even kidding. It's illegal to fit a tow bar to a Zoe or a Leaf (and probably a bunch of others too). There was a company showing off a 'range extender' trailer, but it flopped for the above reason. They aren't designed to take the added weight. You can't fit a roof rack either.

And yeah, the current offerings are crap. I only bought mine because it was stupid cheap. I like the car, but if it was priced properly I wouldn't have gone anywhere near. Same goes for every other EV out there except the Teslas. I don't think you'll find many EV drivers who would disagree; we put up with the problems, but they are there. Until there's mass market vehicles with 200+ miles of range and the charging infrastructure to support them, that won't change.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The i3 with the 94Ah is a decent jump from a Leaf, if only for the extra power and drive, but only 4 seats. The Bolt will be coming to Europe but only LHD and hence not U.K.. it will be the Opel Ampera-e.

The golf facelift has also had a jump from 24KWh to 36Wh and rate a 186mile range (NEDC), similar jump for the 2017 Ford Focus EV l. Basically cells have improved to get 50% more energy into the same package and generally the same motor means they can trade battery power output for energy.

Next step up from that will be the Jaguar I-PACE well before 2020.