I've given up on LPG - the future is Electric.

[Jonnycoupe]

Tesla tried this for a while, their Battery Swap thing - but customers preferred the Superchargers.

https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event

That's just a gimmick to get extra credits by offering fast enough refilling to meet the criteria. They won't actually do that, it was never really available to customers either.

Well done for going for it. Some ex-lease were silly cheap from a dealer. £99 deposit and 99 per month.

Typically these are household second or third car but then are used as the main car.

 

[Raymond Lin]

What happens when you run out of juice mid journey?

With petrol you can at least walk to the nearest petrol station with a jerry can or call a friend or the AA.

Does the AA or RAC carry some kind of generator to charge electric cars on the go? Or do you have to get it towed back home.

 

[sparkymark75]

What happens when you run out of juice mid journey?

With petrol you can at least walk to the nearest petrol station with a jerry can or call a friend or the AA.

Does the AA or RAC carry some kind of generator to charge electric cars on the go? Or do you have to get it towed back home.

That was my thought too. Just seems like more faff than it's worth. I'm not convinced electric cars are the way forward, especially when you don't know how the electricity is generated so are you really "saving the planet"?

What happened to Hydrogen powered cars? Surely Hydrogen is more abundant than electricity? The exhaust product was water. So, other than driving a bomb around, what was the issue?

 

[wedrum]

Just looks like a lot of hassle

 

[Glaucus]

That was my thought too. Just seems like more faff than it's worth. I'm not convinced electric cars are the way forward, especially when you don't know how the electricity is generated so are you really "saving the planet"?

What happened to Hydrogen powered cars? Surely Hydrogen is more abundant than electricity? The exhaust product was water. So, other than driving a bomb around, what was the issue?

wow, ct rubbish.
due to the efficiency of production, transmission and electric motors, eve with the UKS current grid its far more green than petrol, and thats only improving every year as more and more renewables are added, combined with government wanting to close all coal plants by 2025 (although i bet that will be delayed)

uk 2015
30% natural gas
25 % renewables
22% coal
21% nuclear
less than 1% oil


as for hydrogen same as it always was, to hard to produce, to hard to store and transport, and well just rather impractical with little support. even toyota(iirc) who where their biggest supporter, had to admit its a dead end and have switched their focus to batteries.

and as for faff, do you run out of petrol often or ever? if so maybe want to sort that out.

 

[sparkymark75]

wow, ct rubbish.
due to the efficiency of production, transmission and electric motors, eve with the UKS current grid its far more green than petrol, and thats only improving every year as more and more renewables are added, combined with government wanting to close all coal plants by 2025 (although i bet that will be delayed)

uk 2015
30% natural gas
25 % renewables
22% coal
21% nuclear
less than 1% oil


as for hydrogen same as it always was, to hard to produce, to hard to store and transport, and well just rather impractical with little support. even toyota(iirc) who where their biggest supporter, had to admit its a dead end and have switched their focus to batteries.

and as for faff, do you run out of petrol often or ever? if so maybe want to sort that out.

I wasn't disputing it wasn't "greener" than petrol, just that it may not be as "green" as some people may think it is. You even touch on that yourself with your comment about coal fired power stations and they probably won't be closed it 10 years.

The last time I ran out of petrol was about 20 years ago.

 

[adam cool dude]

Honda Insight MK1 all the way if you want a "Eco" car. Only downside is it is only two seats. We are seriously considering one as our work horse is in service 24/7 and is used merely as a commuter tool. It is crazy to think that the car is now 17 years old and no one since has really offered something similar at affordable prices like Honda did.

 

[adam cool dude]

I wasn't disputing it wasn't "greener" than petrol, just that it may not be as "green" as some people may think it is. You even touch on that yourself with your comment about coal fired power stations and they probably won't be closed it 10 years.

The last time I ran out of petrol was about 20 years ago.

You also have the chicken and egg situation. How long does it take for a brand new electric car to "repay" its carbon footprint over maintaining something old that has already left its carbon mark.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I wasn't disputing it wasn't "greener" than petrol, just that it may not be as "green" as some people may think it is. You even touch on that yourself with your comment about coal fired power stations and they probably won't be closed it 10 years

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...rst-time-in-more-than-100-years-a7040291.html

 

[Glaucus]

You also have the chicken and egg situation. How long does it take for a brand new electric car to "repay" its carbon footprint over maintaining something old that has already left its carbon mark.

there's two issues with this statement. First there's a group of people who don't do this, they buy new cars regularly and as such its better to buy greener, secondly there's a second hand market, so these cars are still ran and maintained anyway.

I wasn't disputing it wasn't "greener" than petrol, just that it may not be as "green" as some people may think it is. You even touch on that yourself with your comment about coal fired power stations and they probably won't be closed it 10 years.

The last time I ran out of petrol was about 20 years ago.

but this group seems almost entirely of people wh are against EVs rather than actual EV owners.
i touched on what? that its already greener and getting greener every month, not sure how that supports what you said.

the reason its advertised as zero emission is because that's how cars are measured, petrol cars do not include measurements for the oil wells, refinery and shipping, so why would electric cars.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Honda Insight MK1 all the way if you want a "Eco" car. Only downside is it is only two seats. We are seriously considering one as our work horse is in service 24/7 and is used merely as a commuter tool. It is crazy to think that the car is now 17 years old and no one since has really offered something similar at affordable prices like Honda did.

Been there, done that, and would have loved to keep it. But I now have two children. The lpg Audi replaced that, with the same fuel cost, but more seats and horses.

When i got that I was slated by motors for driving such an ugly, underpowered, ridiculous car. Think of all the amazing cars I could buy for the money etc.

 

[Orionaut]

I think the EV industry is trying too hard.

EV's can never equal the utility and flexability of a liquid fueled ICE vehicle.

They should stop trying.

Hows this for a plan.

Toyota (Say for example) produces something like an up maket G-Wiz. 30 mile range, 40MPH top speed say (or thereabouts)

It is available individually. But that is not the main point.

The main point is that it will be sold as a optional package along with a conventional HC powered vehicle from the Toyota range (Say a Landcruiser)

The deal is that, provided the two vehicles always remain a "Package" whenever they are sold on, the annual tax for both vehicles together will be greatly reduced/eliminated.

An EV is a car to have as well (Short shopping runs, trip to the station etc) it is only ever going to suitable as an "Only" car under very limited circumstances.

Personally, I would love to have something like a cheap G-Wiz, it would probably cut my "Social, Domestic & Pleasure" fuel consumption by 70%, but I would still need the land-cruiser. I could never rely on a G-Wiz alone.

 

[HangTime]

I don't think that would be a success, the number of people who want to buy cars in bulk compared to individually is pretty small. Selling them on as a package would be a massive ballache I'd imagine. Regarding the tax thing, what happens if you need to dispose of one of the cars for some reason (written off or whatever) - do you then get stung with a massive tax hike?

I don't disagree that the case for EV is quite niche at the moment but I think it is a case of seeing where the technology leads us. If the big issues (range, refuelling time / availability etc) are dealt with then it may be a different landscape over the next couple of decades.

In some ways it feels like Hybrid cars should be more popular i.e. giving you the range and 'security' from being able to fill up a conventional tank but also having electric mode for urban driving or shorter journeys. Again if technology improves this may become more viable - having two fuel systems undoubtedly carries some additional overheads and costs.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

A G Wiz isn't a car.

Kthxbye.

EV industry isn't trying too hard. The government legislation is being put in place and manufacturers are reacting.

257k in my Insight now

 

[Nasher]

That was my thought too. Just seems like more faff than it's worth. I'm not convinced electric cars are the way forward, especially when you don't know how the electricity is generated so are you really "saving the planet"?

What happened to Hydrogen powered cars? Surely Hydrogen is more abundant than electricity? The exhaust product was water. So, other than driving a bomb around, what was the issue?

If you run out of power the only option is a tow and it may have to be lifted on to the truck with a crane, because I don't think you can push/tow them. So if you don't plan your route well your risking a massive and very embarrassing ballache.

Also while EVs are pretty reliable, if it does break down your looking at a gigantic bill. The motors are sealed units so you can't do anything with them, the whole thing has to be replaced.

Hydrogen internal combustion engines are a much better way, but it takes a lot of energy to separate the hydrogen to make the fuel using current methods. That's why they didn't take off (yet). EVs are a bit of a stop-gap really until a real petrol/diesel replacement is found.

 

[Pottsey]

What happens when you run out of juice mid journey?

With petrol you can at least walk to the nearest petrol station with a jerry can or call a friend or the AA.

Does the AA or RAC carry some kind of generator to charge electric cars on the go? Or do you have to get it towed back home.

That's not really a problem for most people. Its not normal to run out of petrol and have to walk to a station with a jerry can. Anyway like the patrol car just call the AA who take you to the nearest charge point.

Just looks like a lot of hassle

Its only a hassle on long trips. For short trips its less hassle then a patrol car as you no longer have to waste time stopping at patrol stations.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I did say this wasn't only car, didn't I. I'm going to try the commute, but it it's not do-able, I'll use the diesel instead.

Driving locally, which is most of my driving, the range isn't a problem. I've switched it into battery long life mode (80% charge) as I don't need the full range at the moment.

Was nice to turn the heating on from my phone from bed this morning though, while my wife had to use scrapers and lukewarm water on hers.

 

[Jamesyboyjim]

An electric car would be great for my commute (15 miles each way) but the concern would be traffic. If there's an accident I can be in slow moving traffic for quite some time.

How long does a battery last when in traffic that moves just enough that wouldn't turn your engine off.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

If you run out of power the only option is a tow and it may have to be lifted on to the truck with a crane, because I don't think you can push/tow them. So if you don't plan your route well your risking a massive and very embarrassing ballache.

Also while EVs are pretty reliable, if it does break down your looking at a gigantic bill. The motors are sealed units so you can't do anything with them, the whole thing has to be replaced.

Hydrogen internal combustion engines are a much better way, but it takes a lot of energy to separate the hydrogen to make the fuel using current methods. That's why they didn't take off (yet). EVs are a bit of a stop-gap really until a real petrol/diesel replacement is found.

You're just making it up as you go along aren't you?

 

[Cleisthenes]

You're just making it up as you go along aren't you?

Is his name Brian?